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Gay Marriage by Judicial Decree
Nationa Journal ^ | May 23rd, 2008 | Stuart Taylor Jr.

Posted on 05/23/2008 9:12:25 AM PDT by The_Republican

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1 posted on 05/23/2008 9:12:25 AM PDT by The_Republican
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To: The_Republican

This ruling gives lawyers and judges a bad name. Welcome to our elite rulers!


2 posted on 05/23/2008 9:17:54 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: The_Republican
I've been fighting the fight for honest judges who read and obey the Constitution, for a couple decades now. Still, that subject ranked about 101st on the list of Subjects Important Enough to Motivate Voters.

Now, the issue has moved to the front burner as a result of the 4-3 homosexual marriage decision of the California Supreme Court. Even more interesting, the issue is still on the front burner, a week after it came down. In short, this issue could be a major element in this fall's election, in part because the reversal of this decision by constitutional amendment.

Good. All good.

Congressman Billybob

Latest article, "King George Wears a Black Robe"

3 posted on 05/23/2008 9:38:40 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob ( www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
No the ruling is a good ruling, it says the law of the state, must not conflict with the law of the state.

The gay marriage ban is against the nondiscrimination ban in the state constitution. The citizens of California will just have to change the state constitution.

For example, the DC Gun ban, that was approved by the elected representatives, the cops and the citizens of DC. But that law conflicted with the US Constitution.

If we wish to say the Judges acted improperly in California gay marriage, then we must agree the Judges acted improperly in the DC Gun Ban case as well.

4 posted on 05/23/2008 9:38:46 AM PDT by Philly Nomad
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To: Philly Nomad

Show me in the “law of the state” where it says that homosexuals can not get married... It doesn’t! It does not allow for them to marry each other which is what this is all about. As far as I know, it’s also not legal to marry their siblings...or their kids...or their parents...or their pets. So, homosexuals are treated just like everyone else — within the confines of what society has deemed acceptable behavior!


5 posted on 05/23/2008 9:47:35 AM PDT by Poseidon
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To: Philly Nomad
The gay marriage ban is against the nondiscrimination ban in the state constitution

No it's not. A marriage is between a man and a woman by definition. Any man, gay or straight, can marry any woman, gay or straight. There is no discrimination.

6 posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:26 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: Philly Nomad
No the ruling is a good ruling, it says the law of the state, must not conflict with the law of the state. The gay marriage ban is against the nondiscrimination ban in the state constitution. The citizens of California will just have to change the state constitution.

One detail - a big one - marriage is and always has been defined as the legal/spiritual union of a man and a woman. The only variations I know of in all of history have been over whether a person could marry more than one person of the opposite sex at the same time and over the age or degree of familial relationship at which marriage was permitted. As an unmarried adult American man, I had the right to marry an unrelated unmarried adult American woman, and I did so long ago. Every unmarried adult in this country has the right to marry under the actual definition of marriage (i.e., someone of the opposite sex). Most homeosexuals choose not to exercise that right, and some want the courts to give them a new right, the right to a legal union with someone of the same gender and to force others to call that union "marriage". Wishing or declaring that they had such a right won't make it so, nor will activist wishes put that right into the state Constitution.

If the justices shove this one down our throats, it'll be just like Roe v. Wade. The rulings will lack validity because there is no Constitutional basis for such a ruling, creating a perennial battle that will never be resolved. I will never refer to a pair of men or of women as "married" to each other. The people can amend their Constitution to redefine marriage, or their elected representatives can pass legislation that changes the requirements for what the law will recognize as marriage, and either would be more effective in the sense of resolving the legal question than a ruling from an oligarchy of justices. What will not work is for a small group to discover that such a right has always existed, unobserved since Thomas Jefferson enshrined it in the United States Constitution in 1787 or since Semple slid it into the California Constitution in 1849.

Rights we don't have: I cannot marry a second woman before divorcing my wife, not even if we're in love, even though an unmarried man would have that right so I could claim discrimination. I cannot marry my mother, sister, or daughter (ew! in all three cases). I cannot marry a pet or a farm animal, not even a cute one. Even if I actually wanted to do any of those things, my whim does not make such a desire into a Constitutional Right. Similarly, I could not marry another man, either after divorcing my wife or without divorcing her. Freedom of speech gives people with those desires the right to agitate for the creation of the rights they want, but it doesn't keep the sensible majority from thinking they are anywhere from a bit odd to phenomenally gross for wanting to do such things, not to mention self-centered pests for claiming that their wants are actual rights.

I will continue praying for God to protect the Constitution from the threat of activist justices. Once we decide that the Living Constitution is legally a document that means no more or less than the consensus interpretation of a small group of Justices, we will have decided that the Constitution means nothing at all. The United States will be a nation ruled by a few men rather than a nation of laws. Even those who like the outcome of activist rulings over the past four decades should be very afraid of what rulings the next four decades might bring in the absence of a meaningful Constitution.

7 posted on 05/23/2008 10:30:43 AM PDT by RogerD (What if justices read the Constitution when deciding cases rather than going by personal opinion?)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Prokopton

but that definition is a legal definition and the legal definition of marriage is contrary to the state constitution.

The State Constitution defines what the laws can and cannot say.

So you would rather have thousands of Jim MaGrevies and Larry Craigs running around starting families and fooling around on the side or have Jim and Larry marry and leave more women for the rest of us.


9 posted on 05/23/2008 12:59:46 PM PDT by Philly Nomad
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To: Philly Nomad
but that definition is a legal definition and the legal definition of marriage is contrary to the state constitution.

You are completely wrong. The State Constitution was not drafted to restrict how legislators could define legal terms, including marriage.

10 posted on 05/23/2008 1:55:42 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: Prokopton

Constitutions are designed to limit the power of the state.

For example look at the bill of rights. 9 out of ten tell the Federal government “No.”


11 posted on 05/23/2008 2:44:36 PM PDT by Philly Nomad
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To: Philly Nomad

Gays have precisely the same right to marry under the current definition of marriage as any heterosexual. I cannot marry someone of the same sex, and neither can they. They can marry someone of the opposite sex, as can I. What they have not suceeded in doing is redefining marriage. Homosexual activists seek to have their relationships elevated to as high a level of societal value and recognition as heterosexual marriages. They can only accomplish this by judicial fiat.


12 posted on 05/23/2008 6:43:15 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: The_Republican
Stuart Taylor is NO conservative. No conservative has ever existed who has dismissed traditional values or rejected the importance of the family. Same sex marriage is antithetical to both views.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

13 posted on 05/23/2008 8:34:29 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Prokopton
Exactly. No one is prohibited from marrying a person of the opposite sex. Even gay people can get married if they want to. The point is a relationship between two people of the same sex is not the equivalent of a marriage between a man and a woman. Period.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

14 posted on 05/23/2008 8:37:17 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Its also a debate about the fundamental values of society. Do they exist or are our values the kind that can change depending upon the judicial and the popular mood? The answer to that debate will determine the course of our society and will settle the salient question of whether our civilization will continue to endure.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

15 posted on 05/23/2008 8:40:32 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Prokopton
It used to be assumed there was a consensus that certain values - bedrock values like marriage is a union of a man and a woman was implicitly written into the design of our government because it rested on the experience of human nature, the wisdom of the ages and the view some things are always true because they are true. We now live in a age when human nature is under assault, when men no longer look to God for the source of their values and when truth takes on new meaning because men wish it to be so. As a result, with the disappearance of what used to be a settled consensus, it is necessary to restate our bedrock values in our nation's fundamental laws so they can't be changed. That's the point behind preserving the age old definition of marriage for this and for all generations to come.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

16 posted on 05/23/2008 8:47:23 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: DMZFrank
A parody of a marriage is not a marriage. Even in countries and those states that have legalized same sex marriage, few homosexuals bother going through a formal marriage. The degree of commitment and the nature of the obligation it entails go further than just being a matter of sexual union. Marriage is about more than just sex. We've always understood that up til now.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

17 posted on 05/23/2008 8:50:52 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Philly Nomad
Constitutions also express society's basic values. All we'd do is add one of our customary ones to the charter that governs us all and its not discrimination to state that marriage can have only one singular meaning. Either marriage is between a man and woman and there is a husband and wife or those terms mean nothing. The other side wants to change marriage beyond all recognition - in fact to abolish it. We on the other hand, want males and females to join up for the well being of society and their own happiness as they always have. A marriage is a basic value of society. No society and civilization has ever been maintained without a man and woman bringing new life into the world and transmitting its values from the existing generation to the new one. Writing marriage into the constitution would let every one know marriage can mean only one thing and one thing alone.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

18 posted on 05/23/2008 8:58:11 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: DMZFrank

But you can marry somebody you love and want to have sex with, they can not. What you are doing is in fact destroying marriage by encouraging sham marriages.


19 posted on 05/24/2008 4:57:07 AM PDT by Philly Nomad
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To: goldstategop

How does this stop a straight couple from getting married and having kids? How does this undermine the many legal and cultural protections we give maried couples?


20 posted on 05/24/2008 4:59:17 AM PDT by Philly Nomad
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