Posted on 05/21/2008 11:54:25 AM PDT by null and void
Domestic shipments of solar cells fell for the second straight year in fiscal 2007, dropping 22 per cent, even amid strong demand abroad, a Japanese industry group said Tuesday. Data from the Japan Photovoltaic Energy Association showed that shipments of cells for household use, which make up 80 per cent of deliveries, slid 25 per cent, contributing to the decline.
* Exports, meanwhile, climbed 16 per cent, with shipments to Europe jumping 24 per cent and those to the U.S. rising 15 per cent.
* In terms of generation capacity, overseas shipments totaled 701,700 kilowatts, 3.3 times domestic deliveries.
Do you know the difference between Kilowatts and Kilowatt-hours?
I didn't. Neener neeener neener!
I would like to know how big your system is, how many panels and what it's output is. Your $13,000 system seems to outperform systems that cost many times that amount. Especially given the fact that your meter doesn't run in reverse.
Eh? They're using Kerosene lamps?
No they use a four year payback as a minimum investment criteria.
Probably. That and the fact that the system hasn't been consumed, and is part of the physical plant of my house, has raised my property value, and is making me a little money every month.
You don't consume the output of the system? What do you do with the electricity? What the system produces is the consumable not the system.
Advice on par with telling me the stock market will fluctuate...
You don't seem to believe that energy prices fluctuate.
The bit that tracks system performance is down. Exactly how many kWh I generate is unknowable, but from my net metering I know it is close to my total usage rate.
I have panels with 800 Watts peak capacity. Figure I dunno, 5 to 6 kWh per day?
PG&E has a tiered rate structure
They list anywhere from 11.5¢ to 35.8¢ per kWh, and assert the average is 16.5¢
They impose a minimum energy charge 14.7¢/day/meter for the privlege of having a grid connection.
Oh, and any “excess” power I generate is a gift to PG&E. Welcome to Caleeeeeeeforneeeeya...
Yep.
Especially given the fact that your meter doesn't run in reverse.
Ah, but my meter does run in reverse. Indeed, my bill was so low the replaced my original meter (calibrated for forward power only) with a bi-directional (calibrated for both directions of power flow) meter.
No they use a four year payback as a minimum investment criteria.
Ah. That explains why they haven't built a refinery in this country in over 30 years.
You don't consume the output of the system?
Sure do, and a dab more.
What the system produces is the consumable not the system.
Hmmmm. Just got too deep for my admittedly shallow understanding of things. I bought the asset of a PV system, didn't I?
You don't seem to believe that energy prices fluctuate.
I firmly believe that it will fluctuate upwards. Harvesting nearly all of my own electricity insulates me for that ever increasing household expense.
Hey, gotta go away for a bit, I’m enjoying our conversation and hope to continue it later (and with any luck, learn something!)
How many panels?
They list anywhere from 11.5¢ to 35.8¢ per kWh, and assert the average is 16.5¢
They impose a minimum energy charge 14.7¢/day/meter for the privlege of having a grid connection.
That makes calculations easy doesn't it? /sarcasm tag/
Oh, and any “excess” power I generate is a gift to PG&E. Welcome to Caleeeeeeeforneeeeya...
Time to move : ) So you get that kind of savings and have to pay for power in the morning, evening and night?
Just curious, why is the number of panels important?
That makes calculations easy doesn't it?
Yeah.
Time to move : )
That's a big 10-4, good buddy!
So you get that kind of savings and have to pay for power in the morning, evening and night?
I make enough during the day to cover it. Solar has notoriously poor performance at night...
Ah. I misunderstood that. I can't sell back any excess power I generate over the course of a month, but when I am generating more power than I'm using at any particular time the meter runs backwards. So it goes ahead at night, then back to near where it started during the day.
Over the course of a month it goes a little more ahead (i.e. I use a skoush more than I make) so I end up paying them a few bucks.
If the meter moved back a bit, PG&E would call it even and I'd get nothing.
I can determine fairly accurately how many watts they can produce : ) It is simply a percentage of the total solar irradiance and the price of panels is easy to determine.
I make enough during the day to cover it. Solar has notoriously poor performance at night...
With your excess power during the day being given away to PG&E (your meter doesn't flow backwards) you are only benefiting from the system while the sun is brightly shining. It would seem that except for air conditioning, your system is benefiting PG&E more than you.
See post #43 My meter DOES run backwards. REALLY. It does! I’m SERIES! It does! I’ve watched it! With my own eyes, and everything! Backwards, I say!!!
The panels are rated to produce 800W configured as they are.
Back before the system’s data tracker went missing they did indeed clock in at 800W.
If I told you how many panels you couldn’t calculate peak power without then asking me for each panel’s area, efficiency, angle with respect to the sun, or the minimum atmospheric absorption in my area.
It’s 800W...
(And the buggers put heat sensors on them so it will shut down if you try to use mirrors to concentrate more light onto them!)
The panels are rated for 100W each.
I’m really having trouble understanding what you are actually asking for today!
That would be 100W an hour, so in 10 hours they would produce one kilowatt or apx. $.16 of electricity a day. So if you have 4 panels that would be $.64 a day or $233 dollars a year. Which is apx. a 2% return on your investment, if you didn't have very many cloudy days or expenses.
So at today's energy prices it will take more than 40 years before you recoup the cost of the system.
I’m not quite following the math. I don’t see the individual panel cost, for one, and 800W at 100W per panel is 8 panels, not 4, and which rate did you use per kWh?
I’m in California, we don’t have very many cloudy days.
My bonehead calculations say that I’m already in positive territory.
OTOH, I didn’t factor in what I could have made investing in a mediocre stock instead, assuming I’d recognize even a mediocre stock if if slapped me up side the head...
You want darn near anything built in silicon, I’m your guy, but in the financial world? I’m totally lost.
Do you have 8 panels? I kept asking but you never answered.
That would double your output over the 4 that I guessed and cut in half the time it takes to pay back the cost of your system. That means that at $.16 a kilowatt (You said that was what PG&E said was the average) it will take you twenty years to pay off your system. Actually 8 X 800W = 6.4 kilowatts per day. At $.16 a kilowatt that is $1.02 a day of electricity. So your system will pay for itself in 26 years based on today's electrical rates.
You want darn near anything built in silicon, I’m your guy, but in the financial world? I’m totally lost.
Maybe not as lost as you think. The idea behind the financial world is to try and predict the future. It is impossible to predict the future. Those of us in the financial world are trying to do something that we know is impossible. Do you know the definition of insanity?
Try creating the future!
I have tried and failed many times : ( My few successes keep me going, but I try and not delude myself that I have any kind of a crystal ball.
LOL!
Me too!
Yet we both keep doing the same things and expecting different results.
Which, by-the-way is a definition of insanity...
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