Posted on 05/18/2008 10:05:55 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
"Three weeks into covering the polygamous ranch raid story, I keep hearing from colleagues throughout NBC News who want to know more about how members of the sect live."
--snip--
"Here are some of the things members of the sect told me about life on the YFZ Ranch – which stands for Yearn For Zion – in Eldorado, Texas:"
--snip--
"Much of the above sharply contrasts with the picture of alleged physical and sexual abuse painted by state investigators. The courts will ultimately decide which version of the truth is closer to reality. I can’t say whether what ranch residents tell me is true or not, but I thought you’d be interested in what they said." Source: http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/23/935617.aspx
(Excerpt) Read more at fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com ...
“Maybe she just liked it. Some of these women obviously do”
Sure, there were the ‘bad’ things, but once you get past 18, you don’t have to deal with it much anymore.
It isn’t easy as a single, stay at home mom, with three children, living off welfare, trying to buy your kid a PS3.
What happens when you are sick? Or having PMS?
Now, there may be a ‘lot’ of kids in an FLDS family, but there are a lot of Moms.
Enough that the babysitting, nursing!, cleaning the ‘house’, can be shared so that no one has to be overburdened. Besides, the boys are sent out to work from the time they are 8, for a full day, and you don’t even have to deal with them.
And money? No problem. You have no bills. Everything is paid for out of the UEP.
Your biggest concern in life is your quilting skills. And the End of the World. After all, that’s why JEFFS built the temple at the YFZ Ranch.
OH ...I MUST HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD your post then. Please forgive me. With so many stories coming out why would "her" story be questioned? All of them seem to have some of the same things in them. You know... men getting tossed out & their families being given to other men. Their houses being taken away, girls who run away to avoid being married etc. You read each of the stories of the 15 names , I believe it was 15 and tell me if you think they might be unreliable too. I am sure I can find more then 15 names too, I just got too tired . However I plan to look for more & I will be glad to update you with them.
I’ve seen posts here saying that the FLDS in Texas weren’t taking welfare.
I know some polygamists do, but I’m not sure about this group.
First, Carolyn Jessop was on the run, hiding from her husband and his loyal followers. No doubt she suffered, no doubt her husband is just an abusive person.
Later, she went across the country, establishing centers to help other escapees.
She wrote a book. Appeared at signing parties, promoted her book on tours.
From the San Antonio Express-News
Mental health workers sent to emergency shelters in San Angelo last month to help care for the hundreds of women and children removed from a polygamist sect's West Texas ranch have sharply criticized the Child Protective Services operation, saying it unnecessarily traumatized the families.
That worker was among three who reported that CPS workers lied to the mothers; one described it as a tactic to make separating them from their children go easier. Several said the mothers were denied access to their lawyers.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/TopStories/stories/MYSA051108.01A.mhmrreports.3a4fa3e.html
The common practice with FLDS in other states has been that one woman is the legal wife, and draws welfare for all the children in the family.
The rest are spiritual wives.
Somewhere, I read that the YFZ Ranch(FLDS) does not make ‘welfare’ claims for dependent children.
I have seen no proof, that it is true, or not.
The YFZ Ranch has been one of the larger sources of TAX income to that county.
The Ranch is owned by a couple of corporations, under the banner of the UEP.
They don’t need welfare.
This case is centered on one thing, child abuse.
But that is not what it is all about.
Child Abuse turned out to be the one clear thing that the state of Texas could prove was occurring, and stop.
There was child abuse. There was sex with minors.
How much, we will know soon.
CPS had to take drastic action, because the conditions did not allow them to be successful on a single case basis.
They are the ones who have to take the ‘heat’ for what the rest of Texas wanted done.
Jeffs stepped on a bunch of toes, in moving to Texas.
Then failed to get proper construction, land use, water treatment permits, and violated dumping restrictions.
Texas were worried that JEFFS was going to bring people in by the thousands (which he did) and take over the county, and political posts, just like he did in Colorado and Utah.
Newsgroups, Websites, and town meetings were held to find ways to put a stop to the FLDS ‘encroachment’.
This is the culmination of all that.
Because there were crimes. And it is being done legally.
That doesn't make sense- considering that most of our welfare guidelines make it hard to get welfare if there is an able bodied man in the house. I was told the way they did it was the man would legally marry one wife, and support her and their children. His spiritual wives would each apply for welfare for themselves and their children on the basis that they were single parents. That is why it was hard to prove welfare fraud against them- legally they were single parents with children and so qualified under the rules. Morally of course it was very wrong. I personally could care less how many wives and children a man has- he needs to support them all. I am not willing to have my taxes pay so a man can have more wives and children than he can support.
“There was child abuse. There was sex with minors.”
This is what people keep misunderstanding. Texas can take children who are being abused, or who are in “imminent danger” of abuse. “Imminent danger” would mean that it is about to happen.
If the abuse were the sex with minors, then the only children even arguably in danger of said abuse would be the girls who are at or near puberty. There would be no justification for taking boys, or young children.
So CPA has broadened the definition of the abuse, to include even teaching the FLDS religion to the kids. That way, they can claim that all the children are being “abused” by being “groomed” to be underage wives, for the girls, or to be “predators,” for the boys. That is their argument. And it is a terrifying abuse of power.
Lying to government agents can lead to tons of trouble. Ask Martha Stewart. Remaining silent will probably be criminalized real soon now.
Well said.
Well, thanks a lot. I haven't read the entire book yet. (I didn't say it was a spell binder).
“That worker was among three who reported that CPS workers lied to the mothers;”
Why yes. You are absolutely correct. Three MHRH workers, who were out of their league, there as volunteers, and may have been the source of the reason why the women and children kept removing ID tags, or switching them.
They tried to hold onto the children, when the CPS decided to separate the women, from the children.
” one described it as a tactic to make separating them from their children go easier.”
Yes. That was the exact reason it was done. To keep their from being a terrible emotional, and possibly chaotic scene.
we are talking about 400 children, 400 lawyers, 100 some mothers, a staff of Baptist volunteers, a staff of MHRH volunteers, every CPS worker available in the entire state, and a bevy of reporters.
Among those who mentioned that is was ‘a lie (or omission) to keep a mess from becoming a disaster’, were some of the MHRH volunteers, and pretty much all the Baptists.
Hmmmmmm. I haven’t seen proof of that yet. IIRC, it was because they couldn’t ‘find’ their lawyer.
P.S. The MHRH were asked ‘not to return’ the next day, and their boss thinks they were all ‘dissed’, and he’s making a stink out of it.
He got the staff to submit ‘anonymous’ complaints to the BOD, of which he is a member, and he ‘read’ these to the BOD.
Even he admitted at least 2 of the ‘complaints’ stated the CPS workers were courteous and cooperative.
?
Sorry. Didn’t mean to be a spoiler.
Man, I think my brain is about out of smart molecules.
The supply was low already.
I feel bad, because I like to be accurate, and, without hesitation, I would have to say you are absolutely correct.
“That is their argument. And it is a terrifying abuse of power.”
Is this not an issue which must be addressed?
The issue being, can we permit anyone, singly, or in a group, to violate the laws of the state, under the guise of a religion?
If they participate as a group, can they be treated like a group?
Well, the law allows CLASS ACTION suits. All are treated as a group, and must abide by a single hearing and decision.
“Lying to government agents can lead to tons of trouble. “
Had you said that back on the day the first search warrant was served, I would have declared you a PROPHET.
I was pointing out that there were non-FLDS witnesses that said CPS lied as a “strategy”. Are you agreeing with the strategy?
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