Posted on 05/18/2008 12:17:10 PM PDT by Bob J
Immigration is one of those challenging issues that touch on many aspects of American life. I have always believed that our border must be secure and that the federal government has utterly failed in its responsibility to ensure that it is secure. If we have learned anything from the recent immigration debate, it is that Americans have little trust that their government will honor a pledge to do the things necessary to make the border secure.
As president, I will secure the border. I will restore the trust Americans should have in the basic competency of their government. A secure border is an essential element of our national security. Tight border security includes not just the entry and exit of people, but also the effective screening of cargo at our ports and other points of entry.
But a secure border will contribute to addressing our immigration problem most effectively if we also:
Recognize the importance of building strong allies in Mexico and Latin America who reject the siren call of authoritarians like Hugo Chavez, support freedom and democracy, and seek strong domestic economies with abundant economic opportunities for their citizens.
Recognize the importance of pro-growth policies -- keeping government spending in check, holding down taxes, and cutting unnecessary regulatory burdens -- so American businesses can hire and pay the best.
Recognize the importance of a flexible labor market to keep employers in business and our economy on top. It should provide skilled Americans and immigrants with opportunity. Our education system should ensure skills for our younger workers, and our retraining and assistance programs for displaced workers must be modernized so they can pursue those opportunities
Recognize the importance of assimilation of our immigrant population, which includes learning English, American history and civics, and respecting the values of a democratic society.
Recognize that America will always be that "shining city upon a hill," a beacon of hope and opportunity for those seeking a better life built on hard work and optimism. Border security and our failed immigration system are more examples of an ailing Washington culture in need of reform to regain the trust of Americans. In too many areas -- from immigration and pork barrel spending to Social Security, health care, energy security and tax relief -- business-as-usual politics prevents addressing the important challenges facing our nation.
“McCain is obviously the GOP nominee and will have a good shot a winning the White House. If that happens, then it is might be a better use of our time to start devising a winning strategy that confronts what we know he is going to do on the immigration issue.”
It would be an EXCELLENT use of our time....as well as on the global warming issue.
However, it IS important for people to UNDERSTAND that if they do not “get it together” and support McCain....we will be in a far more GRIM situation.
What thoughts do you have on this immigration issue and how to respectfully and yet EFFECTIVELY convey those ideas to Senator McCain?
I never said I supported McCain I said we have what he have and we better learn how to deal it it rather than capitulation because then we lose everything.
I am so freaking sick of dealing with these stupid ass anti-McCainiacs who can’t engage their brain beyond “McCain bad, McCain like brown people”.
If anything it is people like this who have rendered right wing conservatism moot to most politicians. They don’t even want to talk to to us because every discussion starts out with a “my way or the highway” speech from them.
Any politician who hears that is then going to smile at you, nod their head every now and then and when you have left the room forget you ever existed.
How much more forcefully does he have to state it? Now, maybe you don’t believe him but where do you go from there? Anything he says, even when he tells you what you want, cannot be trusted.
“I’m personally resigned to the fact he’ll probably win through the votes of liberals and independents unhappy with the choice of their own candidate,...”
I wouldn’t count on that....
“Fair enough, but how does perpetually mulling around in that mulchbin possibly do you any good tomorrow AND as I have asked many times, how does pulling other people into it do THEM or anyone else any good?”
What do you mean “pulling other people into it” I don’t care what other do with their vote. On the rare occasion that I have come across a post where someone is disgusted with your candidate and wondering what to do, I do give them information on third parties.
“It’s like all you all want to do is whine and complain. I ask how are we going to get out of the mess and is there a strategy for possibly making some of this work for us.”
No whining. No complaining. But I will be DAMNED if I sit idly by and allow pro-McBackstabber puff pieces to go by w/o injecting the reality of WHO and WHAT that POS truly is into the thread. There is no way to make it work for you, McBackstabber is NOT about YOU.
“You’re (this anti-McCain cabal) only answer is “let obama screw to country for 8 years, capitulate in the war on terror and reverse every single conservative gain for the last forty years because in ‘12 or ‘16 the country will be demanding conservatives again”.”
I speak for no one else when I say the following; considering the remaining candidates for the job, this nation is well and truly f’d for the next decade or so. Might as well be a Democrat WITH the D after their name that catches the crap for it.
The rest of your post is simply not worthy of response as it is just personal attacks. When your candidate loses in November I will try not to laugh at you too much. IF your candidate wins in November, I will try not to laugh at you too hard every time he buries that dagger in a little bit more.
“McCain bad, McCain like brown people”.”
So now if we dislike your candidate we are racists or bigots. If that don’t win folks over to your way of thinking I just don’t know what will.
I don’t like McCain, wish it were someone else on the ticket, but being ignorant and uneducated is no way to go through life much less foistering it on others.
Once again, you just proved my point concerning your condescension. It's a McCainiac trademark.
I’ve always been pretty good at condensing technical books down to a page of hand written notes. Let’s see if I can do this one.
Americans don’t trust their government.
McCain will not put in a wall.
We need Mexicans and they need us.
Cheap labor for the cheats.
Free education for Mexicans and retraining for displaced Americans.
Assimilate and become a Democrat.
America will always be a destination. Process visas faster.
“I have always believed that our border must be secure and that the federal government has utterly failed in its responsibility to ensure that it is secure.”
He’s part of the government and he didn’t even try as a matter of fact he stood in the way to try to stop any attempt that was made.
I finally came around to the same view. I'll be damned if I will vote for McCain.
McCain is an NAU guy. The Mexicans are a bigger cost than puerto ricans. The population that McCain is prepared to give citizenship to ensures that the net flow of dollars south will swell ever onward and upward.
In exchange for less security, less power, more taxes more alienation Americans will get ...... exactly
nothing.
but elite republicans will get cheap labor and elite democrats will get cheap votes.
Wow. You like to talk a good game about how we have to work together to get what we want & then you make a comment like that.
People like you & Juan McCain always boil it down to anybody that doesn't agree with you is a "racist", "bigot", "nativist".........blah, blah, blah.....
Then you go and call people that don't agree with you "stupid asses"! You don't want a discussion - you want total agreement! Pathetic!
Just a hunch on my part, when Obama made those disparaging remarks about middle America recently I think he lost a lot of independents and Reagan democrats that won't be going back to him. Even Hillary knew better than to do that.
As I stated previously, I wouldn’t count on it....
Seriously, we need to understand the seriousness of this situation.
I'm sure it's purely coincidental that you're posting that nonsense when you know Jim Robinson is not able to read this thread, right?
Weird huh?
Anyway, this is how I see it. First you have to figure out what cards you got in your hand and what cards they got in their hand. That can get detailed but let's keep it simple for now. The cards we hold are.
1. The general population agrees with doing something to control the border.
2. Thanks to Bush, McCain and Kennedy, from the last time the levers are in place for a nationwide full court press on the issue. It was a disorganized victory, think of how much more effective it can be if it was organized.
3. There are two aspects to the issue, border security and immigration policy. Thanks to the last push McCain has stated unequivocally and without reservation that the border must be controlled first before he will start any talk of immigration reform. People have no idea how big this card is. We now have the strategic moral high ground to DEMAND that no efforts be started or made on immigration reform UNTIL the border is secured TO OUR SATISFACTION.
Guess what, we just won half the game without having to resort to hardball.
Once the border is secure TO OUR SATISFACTION (and we can set the terms of THIS debate and what success looks like) then wee can start the immigration reform debate FROM SQUARE ONE. Why can we do that? Because McCain PROMISED nothing would happen there UNTIL THE BORDER WAS SECURED (again to our satisfaction) and during that whole time we DID NOT NEED TO CEDE GROUND ON ANY IMMIGRATION REFORM POINT because that is what McCain promised us. The minute McCain tries to raise ANY immigration reform issue UNTIL the border is secured we simply remind him that HE PROMISED immigration reform would not be put on the table UNTIL the border WAS SECURED (to our satisfaction) and that we relied on his word and promise. Therefore, any discussion on immigration reform should not and cannot take place until the BORDER is SECURED.
And I mean a TOTAL BLACKOUT from the right on ANY immigration reform discussion, which will start from SQUARE ONE because we didn't stupidly CEDE ANY GROUND ON IT during the entire “border securing” process.
We are now at a point where the border IS secured and we're ready to start the talk on immigration. Guess what? WE CAN CONTROL THE TERMS OF THIS DEBATE AS WELL. Why? Because the TERMS from McCain and the left are already well known, but OUR TERMS will be fresh and new. Guess what side gets to dictate what is discussed and when, particularly in the press?
Anyway, the terms of the immigration debate are a whole separate ballgame that would need a larger forum for addressing.
That's it in a nutshell. It's all about getting all of what we want, if possible, and if not it's about getting MOST of what we want...through proper strategy and execution and controlling the debate.
So, do we want to talk about winning or do we want to wallow and whine for the next 8 years?
Not very many conservatives will be voting for mccain, I've never seen such anger so close to an election yet if you look at recent state polling mccain is beating Obama. And that's because the liberals and independents are swinging his way, at least for the time being.
He, himself states that people have little faith that their government will secure the border, and then goes on to pledge that he will.
I can take him at his word as I've heard him say this is a necessary first-step to our immigration problem. And I agree.
But there's something odd about John's preoccupation with reaching across the aisle. It's like he's courting their affection in a way that causes one to be suspicious. "They really like me, they really do!", kinda suspicious.
I'll let you in on a secret fantasy I have: where John gets elected and calls senators like Shumer, Feinstein, Clinton, and others for a meeting. After everyone is seated, he gets up, grabs the table and turns it on it's side and says to them, "You have worked day-in and day-out to subvert our constitution, if you cross me, I'll use the bully pulpit in a way it's never been used before, and with everthing in my power, run you out of town on a rail. Are we clear on this?"
List them.
I agree. This is a bunch of empty, “feel good” BS. There is nothing solid and unshakable in any of what he wrote.
How will he secure the border? How long will his method take?
What are his specific plans for the 20 million criminal aliens already here?
Will he support and build onto the Pilot Employee Verification System?
Will he rigorously enforce existing immigration laws?
Specific answers to specific questions like these are what we need.
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