Replies

NVDave went over all the tiny points regarding this subject on a different thread a week ago. I copied a few of his posts for you to read.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2011092/posts
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05/04/2008 11:56:29 PM PDT · 97 of 104
NVDave to lastchance
I did check the CCR’s, but not, I will readily admit, exhaustively. 87 pages of results came back for “livestock” — I found a definition in the sales and use tax section and I read the first 10 pages of results and within that 10 pages, the sales/use tax definition seemed to be held consistently.

Here’s what I find under “sales and use tax” CCR’s for definition of “livestock:”

1 CCR 201-5: ...”Livestock means cattle, horses, mules, burros, sheep, lambs, poultry, swine, ostrich, llama, alpaca and goats or other animal raised for food, fiber or hide production, and alternative livestock under 35-41.5-102, C.R.S. but not pet animal as defined in 35-80-102(10), C.R.S.”

No mention of bison/buffalo in that section except as the “other animals raised for food/fiber...” which then gets into the practices of the producer.

If there are conflicting definitions within the CCR’s, then I’m sure a lawyer will argue the point that the state can’t get their act together on defining livestock.

My experience with regulations and statutes on this issue in Nevada was that the DA said that if the regulations didn’t speak to the statute involved, the statute’s definition won out. This will vary from state to state, of course.

My eyes glazed over when I did a search for “livestock” in the CCR’s — man, do they spend a lot of time filibustering about livestock and mountain lions in the CCR’s.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2011092/posts?page=97#97
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05/04/2008 10:45:14 PM PDT · 94 of 104
NVDave to MtnClimber
You really need to read the law. Here’s a bit of unsolicited advice: If you’re going to be this studiously ignorant of the law, you might want to keep quiet if you ever get into a scrape with a LEO.

There aren’t just two classifications of animals in the law. Livestock, as a legal term, is defined in the statutes just as I’ve said. Bison/buffalo are not included in the definition. Just because an animal isn’t included in the definition of “livestock” doesn’t make it “wild.” A dog isn’t included in the definition of “livestock,” yet no one would claim their neighbor’s dog coming onto their property is a case of a “wild” animal upon your property.

A “wild” animal is not only one that isn’t owned by anyone. If the animal comes from domesticated blood lines, then a domesticated animal for whom there is no ownership claimed is called “feral.”

For example, many people get all weepy about the “mustangs” in the west. The truth of these horses is:

1. They, at one time, were livestock or domestic animals, depending on whether they were livestock or pets, respectively.

2. People turned them out and disclaimed ownership. At this point, they became feral.

3. Now people have hung the term “wild horses” on them, even tho if you catch them up and train them, you can work them pretty much like any other horse, disproving the notion that they’re “wild.” They’re just domesticated animals that have been allowed to run loose, ie, feral, like stray dogs.

These bison sound like a domesticated (from a legal standpoint) herd. You can’t make a bison do anything it doesn’t want to do, but if the herd was obtained from other domestic bison herd owners, then these are domestic animals, not wild.

Back to the issue at hand:

There is no hunting license needed to shoot bison on deeded lands in Colorado; you can book a hunt (for money) on many private ranches throughout the west (Colorado included) and hunt bison. No license is needed, you just need to pay the ranch owner. There are (to my knowledge) only three truly “wild” herds of bison in the US that can be entered into B&C books; for these, you would need a license and to draw a tag.

Since these animals were owned privately, and were supposed to be on the adjoining deeded lands, they are not “protected.” Not even Yellowstone’s bison are protected. As soon as they wander outside the boundaries of the park, they can be (and often are) shot.

The issue in this case is one of destruction of personal property (that much is plain), and possibly ‘conversion’, ie, turning someone else’s property into cash without a proper sale having taken place. This would/could apply if the person calling in the shooters took a fee for allowing the shooters access and opportunity to shoot the bison. Since each animal is worth in excess of $2,500 purely for the meat (which was allowed to go to waste) and probably several hundred dollars more for a tanned hide, taking nothing but the slaughter value amounts to a possible felony charge for each animal. As to any possible conversion - I don’t know whether the DA would try to make the charge.

If the owner can show they were part of a breeding program, and that the female bison were pregnant, then he can also demand compensation for the calf crop he can document.

If the owner can show that he was selling animals based on bloodlines, then he could claim an even larger premium.

The DA, if he has half a brain, should cut through all the emotional crap he’ll be hearing about this and treat the animals the way he would a car that a neighbor burned up because the owner of said car parked on the offender’s land. There’s clearly felony charges available to be made here, but not the ones you think.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2011092/posts?page=94#94

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05/04/2008 11:18:54 AM PDT · 19 of 104
NVDave to FORTRUTHONLY
First, I am NOT defending this guy’s actions. He violated a law in umpteen western states, and a felony charge can be brought in most all western states for what he has done.

That said, people who have never been around bison need to understand that they’re not simply “bigger cows.” Bison are not cows - not even remotely. Bison are a force of nature. Individually, they’re like a tornado. In a herd, they’re like a hurricane.

I’ve seen bison push their way through Powder River gates (a brand of very high quality steel panels, gates, cattle handling equipment, etc). I don’t mean that they ran into them and knocked the gate over. I’m talking that the bison walked up to the locked gate, put his head down and pushed his way through. The bars on the gate simply spread like bars of butter and he simply pushed through.

Why did he do this? He wasn’t mean. He simply wanted to be on the other side. Calm as a sunday school teacher.

On the other side, he proceeded to push over small (6” diameter” pine trees as he used them as back scratchers. Bison are simply destructive. You’ve heard the old saying about “bull in a china shop?”

Bulls are pussycats next to bison. And the whole world is a china shop for bison.

They’re not cattle. A “legal” fence, per the code in western states, won’t hold bison. In Jiggs, NV there used to be a smaller ranch where someone was running bison. They used 4” gas field casing pipe (3/8” wall steel pipe, 4” diameter) sunk 10’ into the ground, and then they mounted galvanized steel guardrail on these pipes. The fence was six feet high.

That held them.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2011092/posts?page=19#19
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