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To: Smokin' Joe
Again, with the Chinese stated intent to destroy the USA through unconventional asymetric warfare tactics, I can see a vulnerability in allowing them to purchase and operate factories here. Now you may see that as paranoid,

No, it's perfectly fine. But it's a gross generalization. China is not the Borg. Each Chinese national is not necessarily a direct or indirectly a component of the strategic goals of the Chicom government.

Case in point. Big Buicks. Drive into Shenzhen for your first time and the first thing you see is a huge billboard that says "Buick V8." And then you look around and you realize, there's a hell of a lot of big cars in China. Much much more than you'd see in Taiwan or Japan.

Then you notice gas lines. Then you read in the papers about the internal bickering between Southern and northern oil companies in China (Sinopec and the other one I forget). Then you reaad about the government being powerless over industries you would tell me the 'communist' government controls.

My intimate experience with China cured me of the paranoia you have for them. I realized that the problem is not totalitarian control from China taking over the world.....but of the USA -GIVING OVER- control of herself to INTERNAL totalitarian control.

When chinese oilmen defy their government, they are effectively on capitalism/freeedom's side.

When American citizens take it upon themselves to support more government control over private property (Who you can't sell to, what quality level or products you're allowed to put "Made in USA" on, etc) then I see that as a threat to capitalism and freedom and individual liberty.

America won't fall to China. But she can fall to people who after all this think, "there oughta be ANOTHER law."

If communism/Islamism was vanquished around the world this very minute, and China/USSR/Iran were no longer military threats, then America could still end up being a second rate country as a product of our home-grown, lazy, poor work ethic new generation who's fainting at Obama concerts.

42 posted on 05/14/2008 11:36:39 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine
When American citizens take it upon themselves to support more government control over private property (Who you can't sell to, what quality level or products you're allowed to put "Made in USA" on, etc) then I see that as a threat to capitalism and freedom and individual liberty.

Actually, I'd love to see fewer laws. My parents could sell the timber (200 year old red oak) an ancestor planted because that part of the land grant was not good farmland instead of having to watch it decay on the root.

One tree they were allowed to remove (after obtaining the 9 permits/easements involved) from land which has been in the family since well before there was a United States fetched over $1000.00, and that was over a decade ago.

There was a time when inherent patriotism would have people be a tad more nationalistic. I have no problems with nationalism, with looking out for members of a group which share common interests.

Unfortunately, that has been fragmented by those who would divide and conquer this country, and they are well on their way.

Some things know no boundaries, among them greed, envy, and sloth, and there is plenty of all to go around.

It ultimately does not matter that the Chinese are not the Borg, the good and bad in human nature is universal, what matters is that those who are in a position to exert force on them, and to an extent, on us, are not beyond using the common man (or woman) to achieve those ends, and will, as much as possible manipulate the ordinary folk in order to achieve their ends.

I am not worried about the guy who assembles the parts to make a missile, but the one who issues the orders to aim and fire it.

So, while the average Chinese person might concieveably profess their undying love for all things western, that would not stop the missiles once a launch order went out.

As for Oilmen defying their governments, they can always end up like the chap who ran Yukos.

Ultimately, government is force, and ultimately, those in government will use that force to their own gain, which is why power corrupts.

Which brings us back to where we started.

Any government holds sway over its citizens, either directly through the ability to confiscate assets or exert force on its citizens, or indirectly, through being able to exert force on friends and family.

By these means the 'not so average' control the masses, whether it be through the threat of siezing your home for back taxes, or your person for some open act of defiance, catapulting your progeny into abject poverty and even farther into the government's sphere of influence.

It is the governments, not all "by, for, and of the people", which I do not trust.

And no, I am not blinded to the shortcomings of our own system. It is the worst on the planet, except for all the rest.

But it is ours. While I generally agree it needs fewer laws, not more, the Constitutionally mandated duties of our Government include providing for the common defense. The question is one of what constitutes a threat, in an era where more wolves wear wool than not.

When those you trust have a common vested interest, (not this mess of 'owes me' fractionation, nor a 'we are the world sort of globalism', but a common national/spirtiual/tribal/family interest) they can be generally counted on to do their part. That common interest, in popular lore, is often referred to as 'patriotism' on a national scale, and sadly, when the desire to place your country before profit is gone, chances are the country's days are numbered.

If we "need a law" now, it is just a symptom of a deeper decay.

43 posted on 05/14/2008 3:20:56 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: sam_paine
FYI: Here's why.
44 posted on 05/15/2008 12:41:34 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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