Plural marriage has Utah promise (YFZ/FLDS Daily Thread - 5/11/08)

The Denver Post ^ | 05/09/2008 | Kirk Johnson

[MizSterious]

Plural marriage has Utah promise

State law enforcement tells a forum it plans no anti-polygamy raids.

By Kirk Johnson
The New York Times

Article Last Updated: 05/09/2008 10:55:09 PM MDT

ST. GEORGE, Utah — Polygamy is probably here to stay. But child abuse in the polygamous world must be eradicated at all costs.

That was the two-part message Thursday night from top state officials from Arizona and Utah, who spoke to a packed audience of fundamentalist polygamists and curious local residents.

"We do not plan a raid to end polygamy," said Utah Attorney General Mark L. Shurtleff. "I know you're worried about that. We're not going to do it."

The raid last month on a polygamist sect in Eldorado, Texas, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, was not formally on the agenda at what has become an annual town-hall-style meeting between law enforcement officials and local polygamists.

Instead, Eldorado and the fate of the 462 children who were seized by the state in an investigation of possible under-age marriages and child abuse seemed to swallow the agenda whole. Texas officials were invited but were unable to send representatives, a spokesman for Shurtleff said.

That left the audience and the speakers free to analyze, second-guess and sometimes bash outright the course Texas child-welfare officials took.

[org.whodat]

When the Baptists start advocating the abuse of children as part of their doctrine, I’ll be right behind the government when they remove the children. And I’ll no longer be a Baptist.

BTTT

[takenoprisoner]

“When the Baptists start advocating the abuse of children as part of their doctrine, I’ll be right behind the government when they remove the children. And I’ll no longer be a Baptist.”

Baptists believe in corporal punishment. In the secular humanistic world, this is considered child abuse.

Bob Campbell, a high ranking Texas Baptist states:

“The Virgin Mary was most likely a middle teen-aged girl and it is believed her marriage to Joseph was arranged while Mary was still a pre-teen. Furthermore, Joseph probably was a grown male — in his twenties or beyond and was a well-established tradesman when he did marry Mary. Any non-Christian could claim this is “statutory rape.”

[org.whodat]

If this goes to SCOTUS right now there's no telling which way it will go. We just might find out bigamy's legal.

Wrong, the supreme court turned down a case last year and there by confirmed current law.

[sevenbak]

Arizona went after the Polygs in 53, removing children from homes, arresting lots of men. It didn’t’ stand, and the state lost all sorts of legal battles. Subsequently, both Arizona and Utah has been very leery of doing what Texas did. They will have as hard time fighting in the courts as Arizona did.

[MizSterious]

This case isn’t about polygamy, at least not presently. If and when it does become an issue, the practice is illegal in this country. If you polygamists and/or polygamist supporters don’t like it, you can always take your plural wives—and your hatred for our government—and go live somewhere else.

[sevenbak]

Wow, you certainly read into that post lost more than was there.

Good day.

[Cloverfarm]

Baptist and Amish men support their own families. As it says in the Bible, if someone will not take care of their own family they are worse than infidels. I guarantee the Amish bishop down the road does not take the wife and children of one Yoder he disagrees with and give him to the Yoder that he likes.

In the Bible God does not promote polygamy. He allowed it but every polygamous family in the Bible was a mess.

[greyfoxx39]

Thank you so much for that post on the FLDS letter to President Bush.

[Politicalmom]

Baptists do not say if you don’t spank your children you won’t get to heaven.

I don’t care what they did back in the days when you were old at 35, and if you were lucky half your children lived.

[MizSterious]

Raid on ranch reverberates into Canada

By Jack Douglas Jr.
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

The April 3 police raid of a polygamist compound in West Texas, which has mushroomed into the largest child abuse investigation in the nation's history, has unnerved polygamists across the country and into Canada. There, authorities have long wanted to halt the rituals of plural marriages and underage sex in Bountiful, British Columbia.

"Clearly, they know that the spotlight is on them," Wally Oppal, the province's attorney general, said of the approximately 3,000 residents of Bountiful, near the American border and the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

Oppal said that for 25 years, law enforcement and justice officials in Canada have wanted to put a stop to certain activities in Bountiful, a community of reclusive residents without a store or a restaurant.

"We hear of events that are said to be taking place that involves the scenario of 55-year-old men marrying 15-year-old girls," he said.

But authorities have hit roadblocks over the years because of the refusal of Bountiful girls to accuse the older men of any wrongdoing. In fact, Oppal said, the girls nearly always claim to be the aggressors, or "pursuers," of romantic relationships with the men.

And while polygamy is a crime in Canada, drawing a maximum punishment of five years in prison, it is also a crime to infringe on someone else's religious rights, creating an impasse in finding ways to prosecute, according to the attorney general.

However, Oppal said he hopes the momentum that began in Texas will reach British Columbia, helping him pursue charges of polygamy against some Bountiful residents within two to three weeks.

"We know now that the problem is international and that there is movement of people between here, Utah, Arizona and Texas," he said.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: Star-Telegram.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Good to see some people are still thinking. However, as you can see from the responses you are getting (like the “you should be ignored” comment), these daily threads are not for discussion. I would treat them like a caucus.

Most of these articles are posted in their own threads as well. Leave the daily thread for the syncophants. they can talk amongst themselves, make fun of other people’s religions, whatever they like, and the rest of us can use the specific threads to actually discuss the news and have a cogent argument over it’s meaning.

My apologies to the rest of you for the intrusion.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Do you believe the state has no interest in curtailing the parental rights of those who homeschool their children, even after the California court ruled that parents have no right to do so?

Do you know that, if that ruling stands, homeschooling will be considered an unexcused absense, and that willful tardiness is considered a valid reason for the state to take your children from you?

[MizSterious]

Don't be looking for daily threads in the future. The Admin Moderator just issued the following edict:

From Admin Moderator | 05/11/2008 7:03:19 PM PDT read

No more FLDS daily threads. If you consider this censorship, so be it, find another site, but they stop now.
AM

[CharlesWayneCT]

You do know that “spamming” generally refers to putting non-germaine items into an existing thread, not posting a thread.

Further, you do know that you are not required to read ANY thread you don’t want to? There is NOT going to be a test.

The “LDS” threads are well-labeled. So other than complaining about the space (which is really up to the owner), and the time it takes to read the headline, there really is no “misdirection” that could work, except against people who are easily distracted.

I do realise that one of those threads drew a thousand comments, so maybe the “moth to a flame” meme is alive and well, but as we are sentient beings, with higher intellectual functions, I think those who are posting there do so because they want to, not because of some unseen force compelling them against their will.

[HereInTheHeartland]

“In the Bible God does not promote polygamy.”

It has always been a failure.
I am shocked to see people come out of the woodwork on this site and defend it. It is sick behavior practiced by depraved individuals.
Some people need to be able a calendar, and realize the year is 2008, instead of 1808.

[joebuck]

I bet one of your wives told you to post that.