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Hand-scrawled records untangling family ties (YFZ/fLDS Daily Thread - 5/9/08)
Laredo Morning Times ^
| 05/09/2008
| MICHELLE ROBERTS,
Posted on 05/09/2008 7:06:21 AM PDT by MizSterious
Hand-scrawled records untangling family ties
By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press
05/09/2008
SAN ANTONIO - Hand-scrawled records taken from a polygamist sect are helping untangle the spider-web network of family relationships at the Yearning For Zion ranch, where some husbands had more than a dozen wives.The church records offer a peek into an intricate culture in which men related to the sect's prophet, Warren Jeffs, enjoyed favored-husband status in the distribution of wives and all young women were married by 24.
An analysis of the records, which authorities seized in a raid last month, show that by the time a girl reached 16, she was more likely to be married than to live as a child in her father's household. The same was not true for boys.
Ben Bistline, a former member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who was raised in the sect, said Jeffs or other church leaders decided who got married and when. Jeffs is imprisoned on an accomplice-to-rape charge in Utah.
"It's just at the whim of the leader," said Bistline, who said successful businessmen who donate heavily to the sect or who are close to the prophet are generally favored. "There's a lot of nepotism involved."
The records, released by court officials last week, include 37 families totaling 507 individuals. At the time the lists were written from March through August of 2007, most of the people were living at the YFZ Ranch, though others were in homes along the Utah-Arizona line.
Two-thirds of listed households were polygamous, with the brothers of Jeffs and a senior elder claiming the most wives, up to 21 in one case.
Men still in their 20s made up most of the dozen monogamous marriages.
The husbands and wives were married in the FLDS, and none is believed to hold Texas marriage licenses.
Of the 19 youths listed as being 16 or 17, none of the boys are husbands, while nine of the girls are listed as wives. Only one 17-year-old girl remained unmarried.
Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult.
The young men in monogamous marriages will likely seek additional wives as they age, Bistline said.
"A man has to have at least three wives to get to the highest degree of heaven," he said.
After the raid, the state took custody of 464 children belonging to FLDS families, including one born later to a teen mother. Authorities alleged that teenage girls were being systematically abused and forced into underage marriages, while boys were being groomed to become future abusers.
Church officials insist they are being persecuted for their religious beliefs.
FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said the records indicate that many sect members "are either monogamous couples or adult couples, and that incidence of underage marriage is actually not very prevalent."
No criminal charges have been filed, though state authorities continue to investigate.
"Our investigation and prosecution will go where the evidence leads," Jerry Strickland, a spokesman for the attorney general's office, stated in an e-mail.
As in many states, government-recognized marriage in Texas to more than one person at the same time is a felony. But the law also apparently applies to anyone who "purports to marry," language used in Utah to target polygamists who marry in religious services but don't get marriage licenses.
Ken Driggs, an Atlanta lawyer who is an expert on the FLDS and the legal history of polygamy, said any prosecution of FLDS members for multiple marriages would be difficult because of the law's vagueness, questions of jurisdiction and the community's refusal to testify in previous instances.
"They have a tricky case in front of them," Driggs said.
The records are each labeled "Father's Family Information Sheet, Bishop's Record," and appear to be a kind of church census, with wives and children listed below the male head of household. The age and location of each individual is included, though some are incomplete.
Church elder Wendell Nielsen is listed as having the most wives at 21. Two of Jeffs' brothers also had numerous wives. His brother, Nephi Jeffs, had 14 wives listed. Isaac Jeffs, the brother who was driving Warren Jeffs when he was arrested outside Las Vegas in August 2006, had 10 wives listed.
The records, taken from a safe in an office at the ranch, were among the truckload of documents, computer disks and family Bibles seized from the ranch during a six-day search for records that showed underage marriages. Parker said he was unsure how complete the records are or what purpose they served.
Authorities raided the compound April 3 after a series of calls to a domestic-abuse hot line that purportedly came from a 16-year-old girl who was forced into a relationship at the ranch with a man three times her age. The girl has not been found, and authorities are investigating whether the call was a hoax.
Jeffs was convicted of being an accomplice to rape for arranging a marriage in Utah between a 14-year-old follower and a 19-year-old man. Jeffs awaits trial on other charges in Arizona.
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Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-80, 81-89 next last
5/8 thread, with articles on:
TX making plans for fLDS children, work on the case taking toll on social workers, town hall on polygamy, update on Lost Boys, report from former plural wife, "army" of attorneys in case, San Angelo mayor's report, federal prosecutor assigned to look into polygamy crimes, interview with publisher of Eldorado Success, letter from fLDS mother, next hearings set for 5/19, "Sects are About Sex" column, burden of case on area's courts, lawyer representing fLDS children speaks, church records speak volumes, state must immunize children.
5/7 thread, with articles on:
TX AG handling the case, laws that come into play, former fLDS member speaks out, legal experts talk about case, 80 year old has 21 wives, incest next issue with Jeffs case, seized records show polygamous unions, the Lost Boys, DA preparing criminal cases against fLDS, AGs meet to discuss how to help polygamists (link only), UT AG's political contributers, ACLU weighs in (of course), state increases security at kids housing.
5/6 thread, with articles on:
TX AG to prosecute any fLDS cases, Canadians urge crackdown on border (to prevent celestial bride traffic to US), more on DOD probe of fLDS, Lost Boys interview
5/5 thread, with articles on:
Canadian parents want Ottawa's help in getting daughter back from TX, attorneys complain about confusion with hearings, polygamous dad speaks out, mothers leave children while courts sort out case, Carolyn Jessop's "Escape" no. 5 on NYT bestseller list, deport's excellent list of links, Warren Jeffs under suicide watch, man has 21 wives, 35 children, town hall set for media, law discussions on polygamy .
5/4 thread, with articles on:
Recollections of life in the cult, polygamy summit in St. George, Utah AG reluctant to judge Tx action, UT, AZ polygamists retreated to TX, children adapt to new homes, states divided on approach to polygamy
5/3 thread, with articles on:
Colorado woman's (Laura Chapman) story of abuse in fLDS, letter from fLDS mothers to Utah governor, more on fashion, according to UT, "few answers in Texas", how families are torn apart by fLDS, Utah gives TX hints on handling of fLDS kids, reprint of TX law professor's assertion that raid was correct and legal, discussion on blood atonement with links, Polygamy's undergrond railroad, "Mormon Manson," comparisons between YFZ and Cold Creek, fairly complete listing of child child custody legal procedure, common pediatric fractures, look at how fLDS acquired land for compount using fraud in 2004
5/2 thread, with articles on:
Utah officials don't want federal help, feds claim they're stymied in probes of fLDS, residents of UT and AZ want crackdowns, home schooling for sect children, burden of proof high in such cases, kids' religious needs, older boys, not adults may be source of abuse of boys, Bishop's Record (pdf) list of YFZ families, Dr. Phil opines, warrant canceled for AZ man originally charged with molesting "Sarah," protesters supporting fLDS mothers show up at NBA game, letter from fLDS mothers claims rights violated, law professor says state correct to remove children from ranch, excerpt from "On the Lam with Warren Jeffs."
5/1 thread, with articles on:
FLDS doctor denies abuse, fLDS petitions court for return of children, denial of abuse of boys, commentary by Marci Hamilton (constitutional law expert), TX senator wants more info on YFZ, LDS response to situation, new evidence on abuse, NY Voodoo sex abuse case
4/30 thread, with articles on:
Investigations into fLDS government contracts, new compound built at 4 Corners area, strains on CPS capacity, Shurtleff & Reid agree to work together, interview with mothers in Amarillo, Colorado City fLDS watching events in Texas, NM removes 4 children from non-fLDS cult compound, sexual and physical injuries listed, proposed AZ bill would shield children of polygamists, Canadians want action on polygamists, fLDS denies child abuse, fLDS claims children have brittle bone disease, articles on brittle bone disease
4/29 thread with articles on:
"Lost" boys found, cult children statistics, more on WE documentary, sect doctors silent on abuse question, legal news and details, woman recalls life in sect, children's diet, Texans chip in to help, children at one shleter think they're all siblings, sect placement marriages "diabolical," sect threatens lawsuit, questions DNA tests might answer, teen mother gives birth (it's a boy)
4/28 thread with articles on:
Criminal charges urged for YFZ, new "prophet" film, debate over legalities of raid, Bountiful, BC fLDS group, reason in religious beliefs, former fLDS member shares insights, more on the Short Creek raid, documentary about group on WE TV.
4/27 thread with articles on:
Gene disorders in group, child custody processes, appeal to Gov. Perry, unusual way of life in YFZ, possibility of children held at YFZ whose parents were forced out, sheriff says authorities had spy inside sect.
4/26 thread with articles on:
Cost of care for the children of the sect, charges that two kids might be missing, how members of the sect dress, court rejects requests of mothers to stay with children, appeals court cancels hearing, Canadian involved in sect, culture shock for kids, oil drillers last laugh, possible involvement in human trafficking and drugs at Colorado City, Rep. Kay Granger's request to investigate financial ties to USG
4/25 thread with aritcles on:
Courts allowing state to place children in foster homes, legal challenges to the raid, beliefs on polygamy, protests against the raid and removal of children, Warren Jeff's appeal, portions of the Texas Family Code
4/24 thread with articles on:
Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment, articles on how and where the children were placed, Carolyn Jessup on Canadian children possibly at the ranch, legal aid group challenges judge, interview with Benjamin Bistline, 40 women choose to go to safe house instead of back to cult, 25 girls claimed to be adults, now found to be minors.
As always, for the sake of orderliness (and to prevent the pulling of threads and/or messages), let's do try to stay on topic and polite. You can't have a flame war if you don't take the bait.
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To: greyfoxx39; Politicalmom; stlnative
2
posted on
05/09/2008 7:07:46 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: All
Utah, Ariz. Prosecutors Vow Not to Raid Polygamists
by Howard Berkes
Morning Edition, May 9, 2008 · The top prosecutors in Utah and Arizona promise not to raid polygamist groups in their states. That includes the group accused of child abuse in Texas, which has its home base on the Utah-Arizona border. The pledge was made Thursday night at a Polygamy Town Meeting that attracted a thousand people, many of them polygamists.
So many people crowded into a ballroom at the convention center in St. George, Utah, that organizers pulled back the folding doors to another ballroom, and it was still standing room only. They looked like a casually dressed crowd you'd find anywhere. There were no granny dresses or 19th century hairdos. But most indicated they were part of polygamist groups when hundreds of hands shot up in response to questions from Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.
"Can I just ask, and we're not taking notes, but how many of you have relatives in Texas who are in custody? How many of you would be willing to take them into your home? We think it would be wonderful if that were to happen, and we'll continue to try and encourage that," Shurtleff said.
'We Do Not Plan a Raid to End Polygamy'
For two hours, Utah and Arizona officials told the gathering that this isn't Texas, where suspicions about arranged child marriages triggered a raid on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS church. More than 460 FLDS children are now in state custody.
"We assure you that we do not plan a raid to end polygamy," Shurtleff said. "I know you're worried about that. We're not going to do it. I don't care how many talking heads on cable television shows tell Terry and I that we need to cowboy up and be like Texas. We don't believe that's the answer."
"Terry" is Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, who has one of the twin FLDS hometowns in his state. Goddard told the gathering that he and Shurtleff share a different strategy from Texas. They target specific polygamists committing specific crimes, including arranged marriages of minor girls.
Goddard assured the crowd that polygamist beliefs alone won't trigger prosecution.
"There are suspicions that some actions are taken because of the defendant's belief and not because of their acts. And I want to assure you, that's not the rule in our office, and as long as I'm attorney general it never will be," Goddard said.
'Polygamy Is Not Going Away'
Polygamist wives and husbands also spoke, saying they are different from the FLDS group. They don't arrange marriages, many said. They don't believe in pairing underage girls with relatives or older men. They don't isolate themselves from the modern world. They worry about being tainted by what they called the offensive actions of a few. And they're here to stay.
"I think the state has to realize that polygamy is not going away," said Don Timpson, part of a group that broke away from the FLDS. "It is part of the fabric not only of fundamentalist Mormon communities but every community."
Well, not every community, but there are tens of thousands of polygamists in at least nine states. Most adhere to a lingering remnant of the Mormon faith as founder Joseph Smith preached it. Mormons firmly rejected polygamy decades ago. Today's polygamists believe they're keeping the original faith alive.
Earlier in the day, during a series of panel discussions, some polygamy opponents grew tired of what seemed like a forgiving tone.
"I think they should go into all these polygamous communities and you go up there," said Buster Johnson, a county supervisor in Mojave County, the Arizona home of the FLDS. "Because you have the probable cause from Texas to say that these abuses have taken place, you go up to the house and you say 'I want everybody outside. I want to see the birth certificates. I want to know who the mothers are.' You look and you go 'It appears that you were underage when you had this child,' you DNA test them, and somebody goes to jail and we start putting an end to this right now."
Johnson didn't stay for the Polygamy Town Meeting on Thursday night. He doesn't buy the Arizona and Utah approaches, which seek partnerships with polygamist groups to help root out abuse.
Source: NPR.
3
posted on
05/09/2008 7:10:56 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: All
Polygamy town hall: A.G. says Texas-like raid on sects not the answer |
By Brooke Adams and Mark Havnes The Salt Lake Tribune Salt Lake Tribune |
Article Last Updated:05/09/2008 06:40:42 AM MDT |
|
ST. GEORGE - Attorney General Mark Shurtleff called a raid on a polygamous sect's ranch in Texas no surprise given the group's resistant, secretive practices but said Thursday he would never authorize such a move in Utah. "I know you are worried about that. We're not going to do it," said Shurtleff, drawing applause from a crowd at the Dixie Center packed with fundamentalist Mormons. "We don't believe that is the answer." It's been more than a month since Texas authorities took more than 400 children from the ranch, home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, because of abuse allegations. But aftershocks of the event continue to reverberate through fundamentalist Mormon communities thousands of miles away, as shown during the fourth annual town hall meeting on polygamy at the Dixie Center. At the back of the hall, a caution-yellow banner advertised the sect's Web site and thanked the public for its support. About 500 people packed two ballrooms to listen to and question Shurtleff, Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, Arizona lawmaker David Lujan, Safety Net Coordinator Paul Murphy and Don Timpson, a member of the fundamentalist group known as The Work of Jesus Christ. Goddard called the Safety Net Committee, which brings together polygamous communities, law enforcement and service providers, a "movement" that would forestall a Texas-style raid. "I think that action was in part because that fundamentalist discussion was not taking place," he said. "The feeling was if there were children in distress there was no way they could get their voices heard. That's not true of Arizona any more." Shurtleff tried to quell some fears, even as he made it clear that Utah will continue to prosecute crimes that hurt women and children and said in particular that the "religious principle" of incest, practiced by a couple groups that allow close relatives to marry, was "something we will not stand for." He said that Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman has asked FLDS leaders for a list of children and parents who are Utah residents as the first step in working to protect their interests in the Texas action. He also asked for a show of hands of those related to children in custody. As many as 50 hands shot up. His office is looking into helping Utah relatives become foster parents to the FLDS children. As in previous years, some audience members asked the attorneys general for help in pushing for decriminalization of polygamy, which they said would do more to open the closed communities than any prosecutorial action. Shurtleff's advice: "Wait until after the election" to bring up any such proposals. Timpson said removal of FLDS children in Texas could be tied back historically to Utah's move in 1935 to elevate polygamy from misdemeanor to felony status. That caused polygamists to seek isolated locales safe from scrutiny. "My belief is that the somewhat ill-conceived bigamy statute needs to be revised," he said. "It is outmoded [and] I doubt it would stand constitutional scrutiny at this time." Lujan, an Arizona lawmaker, came under fire for proposed legislation that would bar men who married underage girls to get custody of their children in domestic disputes. Earlier in the day, three panels spoke about media coverage of polygamous communities. One panel, comprised of plural wives from all but the FLDS community, said media tend to miss the diversity of the various groups, which collectively have about 35,000 members. Speakers from nonprofit social service groups said that many children they deal with have little or no education and suffer emotional problems. Michelle Benward, whose organization New Frontiers for Families began working with FLDS teens two years ago, said many of the children she helps have been torn by watching images of the raid on the FLDS ranch in Texas. The raid has "broken many hearts, she said. |
Source: The Salt Lake Tribune. |
4
posted on
05/09/2008 7:17:16 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: MizSterious
"My belief is that the somewhat ill-conceived bigamy statute needs to be revised," he said. "It is outmoded [and] I doubt it would stand constitutional scrutiny at this time." Another high elected official seeks to extend Sullivan to polygamy. Despicable.
5
posted on
05/09/2008 7:20:56 AM PDT
by
dirtboy
To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; Greg F; ...
6
posted on
05/09/2008 7:25:52 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
To: dirtboy
As in previous years, some audience members asked the attorneys general for help in pushing for decriminalization of polygamy, which they said would do more to open the closed communities than any prosecutorial action.
Shurtleff's advice: "Wait until after the election" to bring up any such proposals. Wow, nothing like showing your true colors, Shirtless.
7
posted on
05/09/2008 7:28:08 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
To: All
Few who are left at polygamist ranch try to make sense of it all
08:10 AM CDT on Friday, May 9, 2008
By EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News
eramshaw@dallasnews.com
YEARNING FOR ZION RANCH, Texas Emptiness echoes off this polygamist community's once-lush lawns, now parched and brown. Earthmovers and excavators sleep silently over vacant quarries and construction sites.
And the schoolhouse sits frozen in time, its half-finished spelling tests and chalky blackboard lessons a reminder of the religious sect's absent children.
Five weeks since state authorities swept this West Texas ranch and moved more than 400 children into foster care, the prospect of life returning to this community looks bleak.
Mothers have scattered across the state, moving into motels to be close to their children's foster homes. Fathers have returned to the Utah-Arizona border where their Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is based, jittery that their other families will be targeted.
Just a few dozen elderly women and young men plus a handful of sect leaders sent from Utah to manage the legal crisis remain at the ranch, a fraction of the estimated 700 people living there before the raid.
Excerpt. Read the rest at source: Denton Record Chronicle.
8
posted on
05/09/2008 7:28:31 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: greyfoxx39
I caught a segment on Fox News yesterday on this. E.D. Hill was interviewing "Shirtless" and demanding to know why government officials were assisting criminal organizations like this one. That's her wording! The guy wasn't really shirtless (LOL), but he certainly was shameless..
9
posted on
05/09/2008 7:30:58 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: MizSterious
Utah seeks facts about Texas raid
By Lisa Riley Roche and James Thalman
Deseret News
Published: May 9, 2008
Utah authorities will look into claims by members of the Fundamentalist LDS Church that their children were wrongfully taken in a Texas raid of the church's ranch there in April as long as the members are from Utah.
Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. made the offer in response to a letter from FLDS member Willie Jessop seeking the governor's help in the polygamist sect's ongoing child custody battle with Texas after hundreds of children were taken from the YFZ Ranch.
Huntsman spokeswoman Lisa Roskelley said the governor's general counsel contacted Jessop on Monday and asked that the Utah Department of Human Services be provided with a list of Utah residents involved in the church's child custody battle with Texas.
Jessop said he's working on a complete list to provide to the state.
"I have been in communication with the governor's office, and we are preparing a list of Utah residents who are caught up in this thing," said Jessop. "So far, I know of at least three families who brought their children (to Texas) and were visiting grandparents and got their children taken away."
Specific allegations related to the raid would be followed up by the Utah Division of Child and Family Services, just as the division follows up with individual claims of child abuse made in Utah, according to Department of Human Services spokeswoman Elizabeth Sollis.
First though, questions over jurisdiction and steps to confirm actual residency of those said to be Utahns would have to be dealt with, Sollis said. No one from the Utah DCFS office has been sent to Texas, and no immediate plans are in place to send anyone, she added.
Jessop sent a letter to Huntsman last Friday urging him to intervene because many of the FLDS members involved in the raid by Texas authorities are from Utah.
"This siege ended in Utah residents being held hostage by the Texas authorities," Jessop wrote, complaining of "atrocities" committed including the placement of FLDS children in foster homes throughout Texas.
"These children were not abused until ripped from their mother's arms and taken from their safe, comfortable homes their fathers watching in anguish from a distance, held at bay by gunpoint and heavy artillery," Jessop said in the letter.
He also accused Texas authorities of ignoring parental rights and asked the governor to "put an end to the blatant criminal acts and civil rights violations," Jessop sent a similar letter to Texas Gov. Rick Perry.
Texas authorities went to the ranch and said they found evidence of child abuse, including underage mothers, after receiving a call from someone claiming to be 16 years old, pregnant and in an abusive marriage.
That call is being investigated as a possible hoax, but a judge ordered the removal of all of the children on the ranch, and 464 children have been placed in foster care.
Source: Deseret News.
10
posted on
05/09/2008 7:32:42 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: All
Attorneys general defend Texas
But Utah, Arizona officials offer reassurances to polygamists
Published: May 9, 2008
ST. GEORGE The attorneys general for Utah and Arizona agreed Thursday that Texas was right in its removal of hundreds of FLDS children from the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas, more than a month ago.
"There was one person with control over the whole structure and kids were getting hurt. I think they are rapidly coming to the conclusion that it's an inherently dangerous place and there aren't adults there who are sufficiently powerful to stand up to protect the children," Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said during a polygamy town hall meeting attended by more than 600 people in the Dixie Center.
Goddard joined Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, Don Timpson of Centennial Park, a polygamous community across the Utah/Arizona border, and Arizona legislator David Lujan who drafted a child bigamy bill in that state. Deseret News reporter Ben Winslow moderated the two-hour question and answer session.
"No one expected, when we planned this meeting this year, what would happen in Texas. And yet, I ask you tonight, is anybody really surprised?" said Shurtleff, to murmurs of "no" from the audience. "Well, I'm not surprised," he agreed.
Shurtleff said the Texas raid on the FLDS people occurred because "some polygamous leaders have put their people in harm's way."
"Instead of cooperation they've engaged in manipulation, distortion and lies. It's unfortunate so few are giving a bad name to so many. We assure you we do not plan a raid (here) to end polygamy. We are not going to do that. I don't care how many talking heads on TV tell us to 'cowboy up' and be like Texas, we don't believe that's the answer."
And yet, many members in the audience, which included hundreds of people from various polygamous groups, said they were not convinced their lifestyle is safe from prosecution.
"As a defender of the faith, when you say you will not prosecute polygamy because you don't have the resources, I'm afraid one day when you do have the resources you'll come after me," said one man. "I believe what happens in one person's bedroom, as long as they are consenting adults, it's nobody's business."
Shurtleff countered that he is sworn to uphold the law in a nation of laws.
"We didn't make the law," he said. "I can't enforce that law (against polygamy) except as an additional crime with something else like child abuse. You're not protected in that. You stand up and say you're proud to be a polygamist and people look down on you. Well, you made your choice. I'm telling you it is a crime. I don't know how to answer you when you ask, what will we do when we get more resources?"
Both Goddard and Shurtleff said their states stand ready to help Texas if called upon.
"We stand ready to help, and there are a number of ways we can do that," said Goddard. "Right now, Texas is claiming they're an independent republic and we need to establish diplomatic relations with them."
Dozens of hands were raised when Shurtleff asked the audience how many people there had relatives caught up in the Texas raid and whether they would take the children into their homes. Some of the more than 450 FLDS children, teenagers and young adults swept into custody during the Texas raid are Utah and Arizona residents.
A Texas judge ordered the state to continue to hold custody of the children until individual hearings can be held. Those hearings are expected to begin later this month.
In the meantime, the children were moved to foster care facilities around the state. Parents and their attorneys are still trying to establish visitation schedules with individual children, although that has been a cumbersome process.
Much of the evening's discussion centered on the FLDS Church and its jailed leader, Warren Jeffs. A yellow banner hanging in the Dixie Center ballroom advertised a Web site (capturedfldschildren.org) created by the FLDS Church following the Texas raid.
Timpson questioned the action taken by Texas, calling it "draconian."
"How did we get to this point tonight, where the state feels it has the responsibility to remove little children from well-meaning parents?" said Timpson, an educator in Colorado City at the local community college.
Timpson said government raids against polygamist families living in Utah and Arizona have historically created even more problems.
"Today we have polygamists keeping to themselves, making their own rules because the bad guys are out there," he said. "The actions of past raids have solidified this concept. It's hard for me to conceive of a person who will trust me if I have a bat in one hand."
Timpson, along with several members of the audience, called for Utah and Arizona to decriminalize polygamy and to "come out and get to know us."
Goddard again said he believed the 1953 Arizona raid on Short Creek, the historical name for Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., was a "severe mistake."
"What followed, unfortunately, was a period of no discussion at all, and that was unequivocally the wrong answer," he said. "I do know one thing about the Texas situation. There were no meetings like this and no Safety Net meetings. I think the reaction by law enforcement in Texas was in part because of a lack of communication."
Source: Deseret News.
11
posted on
05/09/2008 7:35:09 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: MizSterious
Few who are left at polygamist ranch try to make sense of it all
What a poorly written headline! When I first read it, I thought it meant that only a small number of the people left at the ranch even bother trying to make sense of it all.
12
posted on
05/09/2008 7:36:26 AM PDT
by
Dr. Sivana
(Not a newbie, I just wanted a new screen name.)
To: MizSterious
Utah authorities will look into claims by members of the Fundamentalist LDS Church that their children were wrongfully taken in a Texas raid of the church's ranch there in April as long as the members are from Utah. Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. made the offer in response to a letter from FLDS member Willie Jessop seeking the governor's help in the polygamist sect's ongoing child custody battle with Texas after hundreds of children were taken from the YFZ Ranch. Is it just me or has the elected leadership in the State of Utah suddenly lost its collective minds? US Rep Cannon. The State AG. And now the governor is getting involved.
News flash to the governor's office - if the members were in Texas, IT IS A TEXAS MATTER.
13
posted on
05/09/2008 7:38:51 AM PDT
by
dirtboy
To: All
Polygamous groups meet the world
|
Symposium offers them a platform to talk about their lives
|
By Mark Havnes The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune |
Article Last Updated:05/08/2008 09:33:31 PM MDT |
|
Posted: 9:34 PM- ST. GEORGE - Polygamous groups, which usually shun media attention, stepped into the spotlight today to talk about their lives. About 200 people attended the annual conference presented by the Utah-Arizona Safety Net Committee in St. George to hear from separate panels representing the polygamous community, news media, social service providers and law enforcement. Anne Wilde with the polygamy advocate group, Principle Voices, said "fundamentalist Mormons" represent a wide diversity of beliefs, and should not be lumped together with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The FLDS have been generating headlines over the past year with the conviction of its leader Warren Jeffs on sex counts and raid of an FLDS ranch in Texas and the removal of more than 400 children from the ranch. But that should not be the broad brush to paint all polygamists, Wilde said. "We're not the same across the board," she said. She said the FLDS, the Apostolic United Brethren, Davis County Co-Op, Centennial Park and independent groups account for about 35,000 polygamists in Utah that Wilde refers to as fundamentalist Mormons. Members of the polygamous group panel talked about coming from loving families that frown on child abuse, arranged marriages and welfare fraud. They said because plural marriage in Utah and Arizona is a felony, people in polygamous communities or households are shy about giving interviews, fearing they might end up in jail. If an interview is granted, Wilde said reporters should not ask about the number of wives and children or inquire about details of intimacy among spouses. Christine Brown, a member of the Apostolic United Brethren, said she decided to speak on the panel for the children of plural marriage. "They deserve acceptance and understanding," she said "I want to open society's eyes." She commented on the power of the press and how when interviewing those who practice plural marriage reporters should be fair in representing the people's beliefs and lives. Reporter Ben Winslow, who covers polygamy for the Deseret Morning News and sat on the news media panel, said he strives for fairness, but is often frustrated in getting a balanced story by the reticence of most polygamists to speak. "In my experience the biggest frustration is people not talking," said Winslow. "Its hard to demonize you if you're talking to us . . . No comment is a comment." Mike Watkiss, a Phoenix television reporter who has aggressively been pursuing the polygamy story for more than a decade, described the residents of the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., as decent people. "Its a society trademark that they are peaceful," said Watkiss, adding he is not interested in grilling children or "good" people. He said he wants to go after the perpetrators of arranged marriages, sex abuse and welfare fraud. "As long as those guys are around, I'm going to be in your face," he said. Speakers from nonprofit social service groups said that many children they deal with have little or no education and suffer emotional problems. Michelle Bernard, who started New Frontiers for Families two years ago to help young people from polygamous communities, said dealing with the news media was a two-edged sword. While news stories can increase contributions, interviews with young people can cause them emotional distress. "When you're in survival mode, telling your story is not the best thing to do, but these kids do." She said many of the children she helps have been torn by watching images of the raid on the FLDS ranch in Texas. The raid has "broken many hearts, she said. |
Source: The Salt Lake Tribune. |
14
posted on
05/09/2008 7:41:15 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: Dr. Sivana
Hey, they're the media, they don't have to know how to write. ;)
15
posted on
05/09/2008 7:42:05 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: MizSterious
"I believe what happens in one person's bedroom, as long as they are consenting adults, it's nobody's business."Except that polygamist sects are marrying off girls who are NOT consenting adults. Details, details.
16
posted on
05/09/2008 7:44:48 AM PDT
by
dirtboy
To: dirtboy
For some reason (votes? campaign dollars?) they don't want to rock the polygamy boat. Yesterday on Fox, Shurtleff refused to say anything against these groups, and E.D. Hill had some tough questions for him. He just kept saying there were too many to punish and that it was here to stay and on and on. On yesterday's thread, there was a link to a St. George paper that won't allow us to quote them--check it out. ONE of the things on the agenda at that "summit" (or it was in earlier stories) is the
legalization of polygamy.
So once again, why am I in this handbasket, and where is it that we're going??
17
posted on
05/09/2008 7:46:54 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: dirtboy
They sound more like DemocRATS all the time.
18
posted on
05/09/2008 7:48:34 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
To: dirtboy
News flash to the governor's office - if the members were in Texas, IT IS A TEXAS MATTER. BUT...but....the mormon votes for those officials are in UTAH!
19
posted on
05/09/2008 7:52:45 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
To: dirtboy
Hey, he does not want to bite the hand the feeds him. They will take this polygamy business seriously in Utah!!!
As in seriously do what they can to bury it as quickly as possible, the LDS does not want to open any more cans of worms, they already have enough going on and too many people are starting to find out what they are really about after all these years. The government of Utah will be very willing accomplices, LDS cash buys more than pretty temples and the support of a good choir...
20
posted on
05/09/2008 7:55:01 AM PDT
by
ejonesie22
(Haley Barbour 2012, Because he has experience in Disaster Recovery.)
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