Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Hard numbers: The economy is worse than you know
Harper's ^ | Friday, April 25, 2008 5:40 PM | Kevin Phillips

Posted on 05/08/2008 8:00:49 PM PDT by B-Chan

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-66 next last
To: B-Chan
I've heard similar murmurings from different sources over the years - its now beyond dispute that old indices have been manipulated over the years and, as this guy points out, its neither a right or left thing nor is it a grand conspiracy. It just is.

Personally I'd like to see all statistical measurements restored to where they where, say, 50 years ago. What would a proper historical perspective tell us?

21 posted on 05/08/2008 8:32:02 PM PDT by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
Harper's. It's a tabloid for the "elite." 'nuff said.
22 posted on 05/08/2008 8:41:30 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I'm over it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

Kevin Phillips was the author of “The Coming Republican Majority” back in the 70s. I’ve always enjoyed reading his work. As usual around here he is a Good Guy when what he writes agrees with the party line. And then he’s a Marxist when he writes something about the emperor’s clothes.


23 posted on 05/08/2008 8:42:56 PM PDT by Pelham (Press 1 for English)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

If things are so bad why did Disney do so good?


24 posted on 05/08/2008 8:44:21 PM PDT by woofie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Spunky

“I find it difficult to believe the economy is as bad as they make it out to be...”

Sounds like your area, like many others, is doing well. The attempt to measure a national economy is about as useful as a global mean temperature. If someone in Siberia says it’s cold, you can say no, the GMT is 63 degrees, it’s quite nice out.

There are various parts of the USA booming while other areas are in recession, and this has steadily become more common since about 1980. Most of these local conditions, good or bad, relate to local factors, not federal ones. Which is why large federal actions help in some places, while fouling things up in others.

My job is to work around whatever the conditions are, finding a way to take advantage of the opportunities that are always present. The local economy can be good or bad,opportunities are always there, changing constantly.

This writer is great at identifying all the tress, but he is blind to the forest.


25 posted on 05/08/2008 8:47:21 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (If you don't vote, you don't matter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

funny after greenspan just said the worst of the credit crunch is over

on drudge.com


26 posted on 05/08/2008 8:51:48 PM PDT by television is just wrong (you don't have to be white to be a racist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 9422WMR

referance *


27 posted on 05/08/2008 8:55:55 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pelham
As usual around here he is a Good Guy when what he writes agrees with the party line. And then he’s a Marxist when he writes something about the emperor’s clothes.

You've got it exactly. The closedmindedness and slavish devotion to the official Chamber Of Commerce / Radio Talk Show Seed-Faith Prosperity Gospel Of Purpose-Driven Wealth around here gets a bit tiresome at times.

28 posted on 05/08/2008 9:01:47 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts
the "go-go" 90's were not the financial panacea that some think they were....my wages remained almost stagnant, our house values where I live were also stagnant....we had no huge stock market portfolio so the tech boom didn't help us....state and county taxes PLUS fees of all sorts were increased.....

depression...inflation....recession....its all in the eyes of the beholder....

the people out in Middle America KNOW whats going on....we don't need to be told that there is no inflation....we know that its here..

most people can sense what the economy is doing ....

where I live I don't see a bad economy.....I see lots of shopping..lots of big cars....people seem to be pretty well off...

29 posted on 05/08/2008 9:03:39 PM PDT by cherry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: whitedog57

Funny how people no long talk about the dot-com bubble. I lost a chunk of change because of it. So I remember that Clinton’s economy ended with a bust that the media refused to talk about.


30 posted on 05/08/2008 9:17:05 PM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: denydenydeny
Michael Medved pointed out on his show the other day that one tenth of American households paid $60 each for a copy of Grand Theft Auto IV in the last week.

How many of them paid money they earned working, and how many just added another $60 to the $20,000 in credit card debt they already have?

Microeconomic examples don't scale up to macroeconomic realities. Some bankers made lots of money during the Depression. But this isn't going to be like 1929 - the Fed will do whatever it has to prevent a stock market crash and bail out the big banks. Don't look for a Big Bang this time - it will be a bunch of little explosions like Bear Stearns and the forthcoming implosions of Fannie Mae and Citigroup, neither of which will be allowed to fail.

And what the Fed has to do to keep the banks solvent is to make sure they can recapitalize by inflating away the value of your dollars while the companies issue new stock and dilute the value of your 401k's mutual fund holdings. In ten years we'll be lucky if our retirement funds have half the purchasing power they do today, even though the dollar values will certainly be higher. During this process, preserving the illusion that "things aren't that bad" is the Fed's number one mission - and judging by the comments here they've been very successful so far.

As Warren Buffett pointed out recently, to match its modest 5.2% annual return from the years 1900 to 2000, the Dow will have to get to 2,000,000 by the end of this century. Eight years in the equity markets are pretty much standing still. The climb is getting steeper.

31 posted on 05/08/2008 9:18:57 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan; 9422WMR

Interesting article; GRRRREAT post. Thanks.


32 posted on 05/08/2008 9:21:25 PM PDT by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

I 100% agree with that article and love the key phrase “pollyanna creep”. Note it cuts across political parties — endemic to the notion of big government.


33 posted on 05/08/2008 9:25:58 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Ummm...isn't that what statisticians are paid to do? Otherwise, they'd be called Accountants.

Trying to get away with some sloppy use of language late on Friday night? Accountants have never reported macro economic statistics, nor made inferences based on them, which is the true province of the statistician. Positive or negative bias is not and shouldn't be.

34 posted on 05/08/2008 9:29:26 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: steve86

Ok, late Thursday night or early Friday morning.


35 posted on 05/08/2008 9:30:02 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Spunky
"Mon. through Sun"

Is that the same as 7 days a week? (Grin)

36 posted on 05/08/2008 9:33:50 PM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (I'd rather be single than wish I was.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
Thank you for posting this. I've been following this issue since the first real estate bubble collapsed in 1990, and this is the first time I've seen all the various leads packed into one article.

The Sidlinger Corp. tracked the true numbers back in the Nineties, but Old Man Sidlinger is gone. Now John Williams tracks the true stats at his Shadowstats website.

This article is a Unified Field Theory of Governmental Manipulation of Statistics. And both parties were in it up to their necks.

37 posted on 05/08/2008 9:35:06 PM PDT by Publius (A = A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
What important is whether they cook the number in a systematic manner. If they are, then the cross-year numbers are comparable to each others. If they are not, is there any systematic effort to upward or downward them? Again, if the answer is yes, we can still compare them with some adjustment. If there's no systematic effort at all, which means the US economic data are cooked all the time, why do we believe in any data and discuss them in the first place?
38 posted on 05/08/2008 9:35:39 PM PDT by paudio (Michelle Obama: a Typical Black Woman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS

“Funny how people no long talk about the dot-com bubble. I lost a chunk of change because of it. So I remember that Clinton’s economy ended with a bust that the media refused to talk about.”

People who were warning about the housing bubble often brought up the NASDAQ bubble. It was another manifestation of the same illness, a great expansion of credit resulting in serial bubbles. It’s likely the bubble is currently in commodities right now.


39 posted on 05/08/2008 9:39:48 PM PDT by Pelham (Press 1 for English)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
Funny how people no long talk about the dot-com bubble. I lost a chunk of change because of it.

The money I lost because of that and 9/11 would have set me up nicely for a vacation condo in Destin. In all fairness, a lot of the loss was my fault. I got complacent and didn't pay nearly enough attention to the dot-com implosion.

40 posted on 05/08/2008 9:43:47 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-66 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson