Posted on 05/06/2008 8:01:43 PM PDT by cdchik123
How do you like the McCainiac now he’s become a global warming nutter on top of everything else? ManBearPigRINO alert.
That’s wh I am not going to continue to engage you. Buh-bye!
#122: wh=why
That’s okay. I knew what you meant.
You take care BlackElk.
D1
We could send the convicts home to Mexico but, given our very lengthy and necessarily porous land borders and shorelines, that would be a futile exercise.
Of course, the arrestees could put an end to enforcement efforts just by demanding jury trials and refusing to plea bargain. At that point, we would witness the end of criminal law enforcement as we know it and civil dockets as well and the federal courts would be tempted to turn the key and send all existing federal prisoners home and start over with very strict guidelines on overcrowding. Also jury nullification will be a serious temptation to overburdened taxpayers forced into jury service. Also, jurors are not going to be happy when it is necessary to choose 12 times however many millions are caught and accused plus alternates. Then there is the question of the ids of most federal judges who think that they are just too, too important to spend their careers convicting Mexicans rather than trying IBM antitrust suits, just because some nativists are restless over inevitable social change. Piling on RICO and perjury charges only exacerbates the problem.
It ain't the 1950s any more. AND 25 million ain't 1.5 million. There is nothing illegal about such plea bargains as you propose and there is nothing illegal about rejecting them en masse and thereby paralyzing and shutting down the federal judiciary.
Gee, "Operation Wetback"!!! What a charming name.
As is typical with the pro-criminal axis, you create a ridicules scenario to try to show that enforcing the law will not work.
Nobody ever suggested rounding up all 25 million of the criminals. Simply picking up several thousand at a time is enough to rid the country of many multiples of that with each arrest. We’ve already seen this in the few areas that have started enforcing the law. The criminals who aren’t caught leave.
Parts of Florida, a few places in Texas, and elsewhere, the illegal alien population has dropped to almost nothing after raids on the criminal businesses that were employing them. A policy of national enforcement would produce the same result; the majority of the illegal aliens would leave.
In the unlikely event large numbers of the criminals decide to go to trial for their crimes rather than take the ticket home, that is no problem either. Sheriff Joe out in Arizona has the model; tent jails. However, the feds should take it a step further and reinstate the chain gang. The government could make money off the prisoners by renting them out to business like the states used to do. Most chain gangs were profit centers for the counties and states and they could be for the feds as well.
When a few thousand Illegal aliens are in tent jails and working on chain gangs the number of illegal aliens who will risk conviction rather than take a ticket home will drop to almost nothing.
Sure there will be pro-criminal activists trying to convince them to go to trial and risk spending years in a tent and working a chain gang. After all, the activist isn’t at risk. But it will be a hard sell especially when word spreads in the illegal alien communities that’s what happens if they are convicted. Just because they are criminals doesn’t mean most illegal aliens are stupid.
This would also appeal to the unscrupulous business people who now employ illegals. Their labor savings wouldn’t be as great but they wouldn’t be engaged in criminal activity any more either. Many of these sleaze bags would change their view on enforcement if they could still get labor at below market rates.
It wouldn’t take putting very many of the criminals in tent prisons and to work on chain gangs to drastically reduce the number of criminals who wanted to take a chance on going to trial rather than taking the ticket home.
All the mythical scenarios about why we can’t enforce our laws fly in the face of every actual experience we’ve had enforcing our laws. Plus as laid out above, should the pro-criminal axis try to disrupt our law enforcement efforts, there are ways to thwart them.
But the biggest reduction in the number of illegal aliens would come by just enforcing the laws against the criminal businesses that employ them. We should use the RICO law to confiscate ALL the assets of the company and the personal assets of the owners, board members and top executives.
Under RICO the government doesn’t have to prove anything before freezing all assets of the company and the individuals. A court appointed overseer takes charge of the company and all personal assets and EVERY expenditure must be submitted to him for approval before it is made.
The target even has to request money for things like food and to pay lawyers. It has been very effective in getting wise guys to plead and to rat out their associates. Offer to return one top executive’s assets if he rats out the rest of the criminals and BINGO the government has the criminal employer where they want him.
Do that to one or two companies and every employer in the country would be scouring their employment records to be sure they don’t have any illegal aliens employed. Do away with the jobs and huge numbers of illegal aliens, maybe the majority, would head for home.
We’ll never catch all the criminals or have all the criminals self-deport, but if we just enforce our laws we can drastically reduce the number of criminals in our midst. We just have to start enforcing our laws.
Now that we have lost Hastert's seat (GOP for all but two years in the last 3/4 of a century until lost by Oberweis who was the ultimate bordermanic candidate and a self-financed billionaire), a Louisiana seat long GOP and now the northern Mississippi seat (GOP since Jamie Whitten retired). will the anti-Mexican xenophobics be taking credit for moving large number of GOP voters to the dark side. That sure does look like a winning strategy, doesn't it?
Will the chain gang tent prisons be reserved for Mexicans and Latinos or will non-Latino murderers, rapists, muggers, et al. be eligible as well??? Ohhh, chain gangs!!! How delectably 19th century??? Feel the excitement!!! Until the fedcourts get a chance to rule, that is. Sheriff Joe is violating the 14th Amendment to the extent that he denies equal protection. Ditto Florida and Texas if those are state raids. The 13th Amendment prohibits involuntary servitude as well as slavery except in punishment of crime. Pre-trial detention is not supposed to be punishment but rather a way of guaranteeing that the accused show up for court. A lot of state and fedcourts regard pretrial detention of anyone for more than six months if the pretrial detainee has not requested a continuance or delay. Put 25 million in jail and they will be released to die of old age in freedom long before anyone can bring them to trial.
I employ no one but the "unscrupulous business people" tend to be GOP contributors. First, you will permanently alienate the Hispanics ad then you will jail the GOP contributors. What's next??? Dumping the Christians and the gun owners??? I don't think so.
Your property confiscation schemes make Stalin look "moderate." The tax bill for your fantasies would know no bounds, either. You really have not thought this through. You may be cancerously angry at what you dislike but that does not improve the chances of bordermania.
I believe there was a prior reference to the United Nations. Not only would I disagree with the UN, I would gladly see us abrogate the UN Charter and treaties entered in pursuance thereof, remove that provision of the constitution referencing treaties as equal to the constitution as the "supreme law of the land," there would be no NAFTA much less a NAFTA "superhighway" or whatever the Birchers and Paulistinians are hallucinating about this week, and we should abrogate WTO, GATT and their ilk.
Will all of those fantasies of yours be instituted by President McCain, by President Hillary or by President Obama? It is a lead pipe cinch that the next POTUS is one of those three and not some border moonbat third party nut baying at the moon.
Maybe Congress will remove jurisdiction from the fedcourts over the 4th, 5th, 6th, 13th and 14th Amendments to facilitate the national but narrow border temper tantrum? Probably not.
Congress is quite unlikely to be moved by such "literature" as Jean Raspail's Camp of the Saints which posits the wretched of the actual third world (the "untouchables" of India) commandeering many ships to "invade Europe" and land on French beaches demanding not jobs but to be fed and housed. If you have not read it, you should. You will agree with it. Of course, Mexico is a lot closer to our borders than India is to France. One cannot very well walk comfortably from India to France.
It’s a myth started by the pro-criminal axis that being in favor of protecting our borders and enforcing our laws cost Republicans their majority in 2006 In the 2006 congressional election incumbents lost in the following proportions. (Grades are from Numbers USA)
• 9.6% with an A grade lost
• 25% with an F grade lost
• 9.2% with a B grade lost
• 6.4% with a C grade lost
• 9.5% with a D grade lost
In other words, about 9.6% of the tough guys on illegal immigration lost, while 25% of the pro-criminal amnesty crowd went down to defeat.
Another telling figure is that;
11.5% of all Republican seats in Congress were lost as Democrats took back control of Congress
But only 6.7% of the members of Rep. Tancredo’s Immigration Reform Caucus lost their seats.
Being pro-rule of law was a better strategy than being pro-criminal if one wanted to return to Congress.
The chain gangs would be for all illegal aliens and any other criminals the feds wanted to incarcerate there. Contrary to what you seem to think, not all the criminals flooding into our country are Mexicans. The criminals are coming from many countries including Red China, India, France, Saudi Arabia and many more. In fact ICE has reported an increase in Mohammedans trying to cross the border illegally disguised as Mexicans.
Please point out which case Sheriff Joe lost. As far as I know no challenge to either his tent prisons or his chain gang has been successful. At least no suit has shut him down despite repeated court challenges. So post the case that shut down either his tent prison or his chain gang.
The Florida and Texas raids were done by ICE. Here in Texas, when the criminals were arrested Americans and LEGAL aliens lined up for the jobs that opened up. The plant had 3 applicants for every job that opened up. That’s 3 Americans or legal aliens who wanted those jobs that the pro-criminal axis keeps saying nobody but criminal aliens will do.
Did you go to government schools? Your reading comprehension seems to be very poor.
Nobody suggested arresting 25 million people. Arresting several thousand criminals at a time will cause multiples of that number to leave with each group. Based on previous experience, each arrest rids us of close to 10 criminals. Here in Texas, ICE busted 300 people in one town and within a week about 3800 criminals were gone. Some of those who escaped were relatives of the criminals who were caught and others were criminals who feared getting caught.
I expect very little need for long pretrial detentions since most of the criminals will take the deal and the ticket home. I expect the longest wait will be for the planes and boats to take them back where they belong. As I said just because they are criminals doesn’t mean they are stupid. Given a choice between facing trial and years in a tent prison and chain gang, the vast majority will jump at the chance to go home with all charges dropped.
So because criminals contribute to a politician we should ignore their crimes? You have a strange set of values. I’m sure we have drug dealers and child molesters who would love to take you up on that deal too. Are you sure you aren’t really Roger Clinton?
The RICO property confiscation law isn’t my law. I’ve been against the RICO law as a gross violation of the Constitution since it was first proposed. But since it is on the books and has never been overturned or repealed, we should use it where it can do the most good.
I’ve said nothing about the UN. I have no idea how you related any of my posts to the UN.
Congress doesn’t have to remove anything from any court. Everything I’ve suggested is being done to other criminals. All that’s needed is to use these laws and tactics against these criminals too.
Just keep up the anti-Mexican jihad, Skipper. It's bound to be a raving success at the polls. Bear in mind that you are throwing away the 45% of the Latino vote that Dubya got.
The wisdom of your position is also buttressed by the fact that it won't even send the "illegal" Latinos back home, whatever you may hallucinate. IF ( the usual BIG IF when dealing with border mania) 300 arrested chased 3800, where were they chased to???? More likely to have been chased to a Home Depot parking lot near you (or to a town in the US that is three towns away from the arrests) than to old Mexico. Next, IF (see above) 25% of border sensibles were defeated compared to just under 10% of border manics, then there are likely to be other factors such as the essentially "safe" nature of seats. The district dominated by lily white conservative voters with a track record of entrenched GOP voting (like the three lost in recent weeks in Peoria, Mississippi and Louisiana) going down to a Demonrat candidate is bigger news than donkey bites elephant in a battleground district. Not even if you keep following the yellow brick road in your charming naivete does anti-Mexican bigotry have a future of GOP success. Whatever you may imagine, they are not going back.
BTW, will it be McCain, Obama or Hillary who sends them back??? I understand your reluctance to deal with reality under the circumstances but you really ought to try to answer.
As to my education, Catholic nursery, kindergarten, grammar school, Jesuit prep school so long ago that the Jebbies were still Catholic, private non-denominational college BA History, cum laude over all, magna cum laude in major. I confess going to a gummint law school (whose entrance requirements were top ten in the country) since it was most affordable for my family.
Whether or not Sheriff Joe has yet been successfully sued is not as important as whether the constitution says what it means and means what it says and whether we are embarking on yet another idjit crusade to use the law to push around people by ethnic group whom some others seem not to like.
My reading comprehension is fine. I disagree with you not because of reading comprehension but because you are full of baloney. No matter how intensely you despise Mexicans, that does not make you a majority much less one with constitutional strategies.
I would make sarcastic remarks about Tancredo who is leaving public life but I confess that his POTUS campaign (though doomed to utter futility from the start) showed him to be a better guy than I had thought and capable of being more than the one foolish issue caricature which was his usual fate in the media.
If Islamofascist terrorists cross an American border, it will likely be the Canadian border as in the past. Of course, Canadians often look like us or at least not Hispanic so there is no reason to worry about Canada, right? There is also little foot traffic across our borders with Saudi Arabia, India, Red China and France since, ummmm, we don't have borders with them. ICE will report whatever increases the budget of their useless bureaucracy. Maybe they should use what funds they have obtained to put more analysts to work on millions of unread applications of citizens of other nations TRYING to do things the legal way rather than wasting funds trying to send Mexicans back in what is, at best from your perspective, an endless and pointless game of Immigrant Pong. Instead, the useless ICE warehouses the applications. Of course, even if it read and processed them, some nations' citizens have to wait up to 20 years to enter the US legally. Mexico and Phillipines come to mind.
We are in no position to waste scarce military resources on F Troop border patrol duty. Here's a proposal. Offer to any able-bodied Mexican or Latin American man with no criminal record and no ideological problems (keeping leftists out is a worthwhile discrimination) a place in the American active duty military. After five years of honorable service, he gets citizenship for himself and his wife and his kids and his parents because he has EARNED it. Acts of Congress being necessary, he and his family would then be LEGAL and we might ask dissenters what part of LEGAL don't they understand. Without a draft, we can send the reservists home from war and stop abusing this "stop loss" policy.
I work with quite a few African Americans and most are against illegal aliens driving down their wages. In fact the last border security demonstration I attended blacks made up about 25% of the 300 or so people there. The event also had about 30 Latinos there from the local chapter of Latino Americans for Immigration Reform, http://latinoamericans.org/.
Quite a few African Americans are well aware that illegal aliens drive down their wages. One speaker we had at a meeting a few months ago talked about a wooden pallet builder in his hometown whose employees used to be about 70% Black and 30% White, but who now hires only illegal aliens because they work cheaper and he doesn’t have to pay benefits.
As African Americans are being driven out of jobs that were their traditional means of getting into the middle class, they are getting more upset with the illegal aliens. LAIR is starting to get requests from African American churches to come talk about how to fight the problem as pastors see more and more harm the illegal aliens are doing to their congregants.
No matter what delusion you suffer from, not all illegal aliens are Mexicans. In fact in the raid at that packing plant this week, of the roughly 400 criminals they caught almost 300 were Guatemalans, the rest were Ukrainians, Israelis, and some Mexicans. I’m sure you think ICE is lying about this too since that doesn’t fit into your delusion any more than their testimony under oath to congress that Mohammedans are being smuggled across our southern border. But rational people believe them.
I’m sure, your idea about letting the criminals continue their crime sprees if they contribute money to Republicans applies to the Guatemalans, Ukrainians, Israelis, and Mexicans. Or do you just reserve that special privilege for rich Whites?
Meanwhile, your repeated assertion that illegal aliens would rather risk long prison sentences than going home uncharged, flies in the face of what Edgar Rebollar, an official with the Omaha Mexican Consulate’s protection department, is saying the Mexicans he represents want. He said; “Most of them, they want to go back to Mexico and never come back because they don’t want to be in prison, live in a situation like this, with all the fear,” he said. “Most of them are willing to go back to Mexico forever and never come back.” But I guess he’s a liar too since his statement doesn’t conform to your twisted fantasy.
McCain said just last week at a Phoenix Cinco de Mayo event that he will secure the border, deport illegal aliens who have committed a crime, and create a temporary workers program. He said; “Hispanic citizens want America’s borders secured because they are vulnerable to losing their jobs because illegal immigrants accept lower wages.” Maybe he’s telling the truth, maybe he isn’t. You can call him a liar if you want to.
In your fantasy world you might get to decide what the Constitution says and what it means. In the real world you don’t get to. The courts do that. And as of today, no court has found Sheriff Joe’s tent prison or chain gang unconstitutional even though leftists and malcontents have sued many times trying to get the courts to rule that way.
So while that may not be important to you, in the real world it is very important because it means that we have those methods available to fight crimes and protect our country.
Sure there is a small problem on the Canadian border. But Canada is working WITH us to take care of the problem. They aren’t distributing booklets on how to enter our nation illegally. Their military isn’t escorting and protecting smugglers and to the best of my knowledge has never crossed the border and fired on American LEOs and other citizens like the Mexican military has.
A 2006 Homeland Security memo listed 216 known and verified incursions the Mexican Military since 1996. Many of these included hostile acts by their military against Americans. Right here in Texas the Hudspeth County Sheriff’s Department and Texas Highway Patrol responded to a call for backup from border patrol agents facing Mexican Army troops who had several mounted machine guns on the ground to protect Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States. Asked about incursions my the Mexican army into the U.S.,Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, of the Hudspeth County Sheriff’s Department said; “”It happens quite often here.” The FBI verified the story but referred all other questions to ICE.
I could go on and list other incidents where the Mexican military fired on Border Patrol Agents, local LOEs, or civilians, but since you don’t believe ICE or the border patrol, I doubt you will believe local LEOs or the FBI either.
You might think it fine that another country’s military crosses our border and shoots at our citizens. I’m sure that in your mind that is no reason to pay closer attention to that border than to the border with a country whose military is fighting by our military’s side in two wars and whose military has never crossed our border and shot at our citizens. However, for rational people, it is a very good reason to put more resources on protecting the border being crossed by hostile military forces.
We can offer citizenship for honorable military service. But we shouldn’t just offer it to Mexicans and Latin Americans and we sure shouldn’t offer it to anyone who is here illegally.
Offering people citizenship after five years of honorable service is fine but they should only be able to bring their wife and their kids not their parents too. We don’t need more old people to drain Medicare and Bush-care any faster. Plus the wife and kids should only get green cards and enrollment in the naturalization process. We should make sure they can speak English and have a fundamental knowledge of how our government works before they get citizenship.
We would still need to close the borders and prosecute all of the criminal employers who have been making this situation worse.
If the Mexican military crosses our borders as the Mexican military, then gun them down. That would be an actual invasion.
If ICE was so effective, we would not be having this exchange.
I will vote for McCain. I guess you will be voting the same way which further makes this exchange irrelevant. Israeli "illegals," if any, are likely not to be Islamofascisti. You don't really think that a Chassidic kosher meatpacking plant is representative of the "illegal" alien problem and neither does anyone else. Nor are Ukrainians. We better seal our borders with Israel and Ukraine just in case, huh??? Guatamalans and other Latin Americans come through Mexico to get here.
The Mexican consulate guy in Omaha is playing the role of Brer Rabbit telling Brer Bear: "You can do anything you want to me but, puhleeeeeze, don't throw me in that there briar patch."
In any event, you keep fighting any comprehensive legislative resolution of these issues and the millions will keep coming north and they will have kids here too who will also be citizens. Who can doubt the practicality of your plan??? /s
Have you noticed that we are talking only to each other?
If the Mexican military crosses our borders as the Mexican military, then gun them down. That would be an actual invasion.
If ICE was so effective, we would not be having this exchange.
I will vote for McCain. I guess you will be voting the same way which further makes this exchange irrelevant. Israeli "illegals," if any, are likely not to be Islamofascisti. You don't really think that a Chassidic kosher meatpacking plant is representative of the "illegal" alien problem and neither does anyone else. Nor are Ukrainians. We better seal our borders with Israel and Ukraine just in case, huh??? Guatamalans and other Latin Americans come through Mexico to get here.
The Mexican consulate guy in Omaha is playing the role of Brer Rabbit telling Brer Bear: "You can do anything you want to me but, puhleeeeeze, don't throw me in that there briar patch."
In any event, you keep fighting any comprehensive legislative resolution of these issues and the millions will keep coming north and they will have kids here too who will also be citizens. Who can doubt the practicality of your plan??? /s
Have you noticed that we are talking only to each other?
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