Posted on 05/02/2008 7:44:32 AM PDT by MizSterious
Harry Reid calls for task force, but local officials say they have it covered
By Thomas Burr
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:05/02/2008 02:47:25 AM MDT |
WASHINGTON - The U.S. attorney for Utah and the head of the FBI's Salt Lake City field office said Thursday there should be no rush to establish a federal task force on polygamous crimes because existing partnerships already offer cross-agency cooperation. "What's also lost in this debate is let's not ignore that just announcing a task force doesn't give you probable cause to launch an investigation and it doesn't allow you to ignore constitutional protections," U.S. Attorney for Utah Brett Tolman. Tim Fuhrman, the Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's field office in Salt Lake City, said local agencies seem to be satisfied with the efforts so far and a task force won't necessarily solve any problems. "In many of our investigations we work with state and local agencies" Fuhrman said. "I don't see the need to go beyond that working relationship that we have right now and that exists with those partners." Tolman and Fuhrman were responding to calls this week by U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and the attorneys general for Utah and Arizona to form a federal task force to pursue polygamy-related crimes. Reid jousted with Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and Arizona's top law enforcement official, Terry Goddard, over actions the two states have taken, but all three agreed a task force was needed. |
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
FLDS doctor denies abuse, fLDS petitions court for return of children, denial of abuse of boys, commentary by Marci Hamilton (constitutional law expert), TX senator wants more info on YFZ, LDS response to situation, new evidence on abuse, NY Voodoo sex abuse case
4/30 thread, with articles on:
Investigations into fLDS government contracts, new compound built at 4 Corners area, strains on CPS capacity, Shurtleff & Reid agree to work together, interview with mothers in Amarillo, Colorado City fLDS watching events in Texas, NM removes 4 children from non-fLDS cult compound, sexual and physical injuries listed, proposed AZ bill would shield children of polygamists, Canadians want action on polygamists, fLDS denies child abuse, fLDS claims children have brittle bone disease, articles on brittle bone disease
4/29 thread with articles on:
"Lost" boys found, cult children statistics, more on WE documentary, sect doctors silent on abuse question, legal news and details, woman recalls life in sect, children's diet, Texans chip in to help, children at one shleter think they're all siblings, sect placement marriages "diabolical," sect threatens lawsuit, questions DNA tests might answer, teen mother gives birth (it's a boy)
4/28 thread with articles on:
Criminal charges urged for YFZ, new "prophet" film, debate over legalities of raid, Bountiful, BC fLDS group, reason in religious beliefs, former fLDS member shares insights, more on the Short Creek raid, documentary about group on WE TV.
4/27 thread with articles on:
Gene disorders in group, child custody processes, appeal to Gov. Perry, unusual way of life in YFZ, possibility of children held at YFZ whose parents were forced out, sheriff says authorities had spy inside sect.
4/26 thread with articles on:
Cost of care for the children of the sect, charges that two kids might be missing, how members of the sect dress, court rejects requests of mothers to stay with children, appeals court cancels hearing, Canadian involved in sect, culture shock for kids, oil drillers last laugh, possible involvement in human trafficking and drugs at Colorado City, Rep. Kay Granger's request to investigate financial ties to USG
4/25 thread with aritcles on:
Courts allowing state to place children in foster homes, legal challenges to the raid, beliefs on polygamy, protests against the raid and removal of children, Warren Jeff's appeal, portions of the Texas Family Code4/24 thread with articles on:
Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment, articles on how and where the children were placed, Carolyn Jessup on Canadian children possibly at the ranch, legal aid group challenges judge, interview with Benjamin Bistline, 40 women choose to go to safe house instead of back to cult, 25 girls claimed to be adults, now found to be minors.
Currently collecting informative links to include with the daily threads--should appear this weekend.
As always, for the sake of orderliness (and to prevent the pulling of threads and/or messages), let's do try to stay on topic and polite. You can't have a flame war if you don't take the bait.
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I do not run a pinglist, but you can freepmail Politicalmom and request that you be added to her FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List.
Daily thread ping!
Its the title supposed to be funny?
Cuz it is.
Like the fine job they’ve done in the past?
Glad I don’t live in Utah.
A Mohave County leader says it's time for Arizona to follow Texas' lead and act against the polygamist community of Colorado City. Meanwhile, Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said local authorities are making progress in dealing with alleged abuse in Colorado City and that he's hopeful of getting help from the federal government.
Colorado City and neighboring Hildale, Utah, are headquarters of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The church's leader, Warren Jeffs, is jailed in Kingman, awaiting trial on charges of arranging marriages of underaged girls to much older men.
Three weeks ago, Texas authorities raided a church compound near Eldorado, Texas, after a call purported to be from a 13-year-old girl, who said she had been forced to marry and was pregnant with an older man's child. Texas has taken custody of more than 400 children found at the compound named the Yearning for Zion Ranch.
Maricopa County Supervisor Buster Johnson says 60 percent of the underaged girls taken from the Texas compound are pregnant or have had children. He suggested similar numbers may exist in Colorado City.
``One way to put an end to all this is to go up to Colorado City and have all the women come out with their children and say, `Okay, this is your child, you have a birth certificate, looks like you were 13 when you had this child. We have a crime,' and then use DNA tests to show exactly who the perpetrators were," Johnson said.
Johnson said he sees a day coming when young girls who escape from the world of polygamy sue Mohave County and the State of Arizona for not protecting them. He said there is no defense.
Johnson said he believes the state has authority to go into Colorado City, but he doubts it has the political willpower. He said federal authorities can move in because the girls have been taken across state lines and even international lines, going into Mexico and Canada.
Excerpt. Read the rest at source: KTAR.com.
CORPUS CHRISTI The children taken from a polygamist sect staying at a Corpus Christi emergency shelter will begin home schooling today.
Delma Trejo, director of The Ark Assessment Center and Emergency Shelter for Youth, said the children will receive instruction at the center from two certified teachers through the Calallen Independent School District. Children at the center must be enrolled in school per Texas law, and will be taught classes on par with their age and grade level.
The children continue to adjust to their new surroundings, Trejo said. She said she could not release the number of children from the compound staying at the center or other information about them, citing state privacy laws.
Excerpt. Read the rest at source: Corpus Christi Caller Times.
Web Posted: 05/01/2008 11:38 PM CDT
Peter Sakai knows a thing or two about child welfare. As a former Children's Court judge, he tried thousands of abuse and neglect cases. So I asked him for his take on the seizure of 464 children from a West Texas polygamist sect. To understand his perspective, consider a case he heard this year as 225th District judge. The state presented evidence that a brother and sister both under 10 suffered physical abuse from their father. Though parents issued denials and lawyers disputed facts, Sakai found that abuse had occurred. But he did not give the state what it wanted: termination of parental rights.
Proving abuse is one thing. Making the case to terminate parental rights is another. The state, Sakai explains, failed to show clear and convincing evidence its burden of proof that ending parental rights was best for the siblings. As a result, Sakai says he placed the children in permanent foster care, and parents were allowed restricted visits. Ending parental rights in day-to-day cases is often hard. In the polygamist sect case, it could be many times more difficult.
Excerpt. Read the rest at source: MYSA.com.
So...
...60% of girls of underaged girls have kids already born or are pregnant in Eldorado...[breakdown is about 50% are pregnant...% bumped higher by kids already born]
...and "similar numbers may exist in Colorado City."
What's Arizona been waiting for...a nice sunny day?
I thought so, too. Funny, maybe cynical. And we’re supposed to buy this?
Johnson is dreaming.
These girls will behave just as they did at YFZ: disavow motherhood of the children. They won't acknowledge anything.
"Of course we can handle it. Just look at our 'crackdown' in our other-worldly colony, Kolob Heights. The number of polygamists we keep sending them every year is less than 10 percent of our membership."
Sure,
and I’ve got a pot of gold buried in my back yard...
selling tickets to dig for it-— $100 a piece ;)
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
"Those cases where you hear rumor and innuendo about child brides and corruption, we have to have reasonable suspicion to open an investigation," U.S. Attorney for Utah Brett Tolman said Thursday. "Beyond that, we have to have probable cause to even get search warrants and grand jury subpoenas. That we have not been able to establish on numerous occasions."
In an extensive interview with the Deseret News on Thursday, Tolman and Tim Fuhrman, the special agent-in-charge of the Salt Lake City office of the FBI, detailed their efforts to investigate crimes within the FLDS Church. They also spoke against the need for a federal task force on polygamy-related crimes, despite a push by the U.S. Senate majority leader and the Utah and Arizona attorneys general.
"The crimes that are being alleged or that there is suspicion, these are predominantly state crimes," Tolman said. "I think it's a rush to judgment to think that a federal task force is the answer."
Investigations
The U.S. Attorney for Utah confirmed to the Deseret News his office has looked at the FLDS Church for possible violations of Mafia-style racketeering and corruption laws.
"We remain open to pursuing that line of investigation," Tolman said. "Investigating a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) charge is labor intensive, requires someone on the inside and has to be done with great patience. It's certainly not something that would result in a raid on the FLDS and all the members and families in the community. We still would have to provide probable cause on each and every individual that's the target of the investigation."
Right now, Tolman said that all his office has is suspicion and nothing more. Child abuse, rape and incest are all state-level crimes. So is bigamy.
"We have the ability to prosecute transferring or crossing state lines for purposes of sex, and we had a case a couple of years ago that we investigated," Tolman said. "When the young woman was interviewed, she indicated that no sex had ever occurred. At that point we're very limited outside some evidence to help us establish probable cause."
It is a problem their state-level counterparts can relate to.
"That's been the challenge with these closed polygamy groups. You can't infiltrate them," said Kirk Torgensen, chief deputy of the Utah Attorney General's Office. "Getting intelligence and information is difficult."
It isn't for lack of trying, authorities insist.
"We open and close more investigations than we prosecute," said Fuhrman.
Probable cause
In 2003, a joint state and federal task force was convened to look into crimes within all of Utah's polygamous groups.
"We asked them to come out and take a more comprehensive look at things," Torgensen said. "The agencies came back and said, 'We're not finding anything."'
The U.S. Attorney's Office said it did not develop enough for subpoenas, search warrants or indictments.
"The fact that everyone may think something's going on ... ask Elliot Ness how easy it was," Tolman said. "He knew, and he knew Al Capone was involved. It still took quite a bit. It takes a lot, and it takes a concerted effort. Even though everyone may be clamoring, it doesn't make for a federal case."
Tolman said they still need probable cause.
"No matter what, we still have to abide by the Constitution and our criminal procedure rules," he said.
An attorney acting as a spokesman for the FLDS Church declined to comment on Tolman's remarks but said he could appreciate their approach toward probable cause.
"That's a much more responsible approach than what's been taken in Texas with respect to the Constitution," said Rod Parker.
The raid on the YFZ Ranch began April 3, when someone claiming to be a 16-year-old girl named "Sarah" called a family crisis shelter in San Angelo, Texas, saying she was pregnant and in an abusive polygamous marriage. Authorities are now investigating if the call was a hoax.
When Texas child welfare workers responded to the ranch, authorities said they found evidence of other abuse, including teenage mothers. That prompted a judge to order the removal of more than 450 children from the FLDS compound. They have since been placed in foster care homes across Texas.
Warren Jeffs
Federal prosecutors have leveled a charge against Warren Jeffs for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.
Jeffs, at the time on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list, was arrested outside Las Vegas during a traffic stop in 2006. Typically, when a fugitive is arrested, federal authorities dismiss the charge. Instead, Jeffs was indicted by a grand jury.
The 52-year-old FLDS leader was convicted last year in Utah of rape as an accomplice, accusing him of performing a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin. In Arizona, Jeffs is facing more charges accusing him of similar crimes.
On the final day of the police search of the YFZ Ranch, FBI agents executed a search warrant.
"We have consulted to some extent with my counterparts in Dallas," Fuhrman said. "A lot of it is education because of the experience we have had here."
The evidence seized from the Cadillac Escalade that Jeffs was riding in when he was arrested is the subject of legal battles over whether it is privileged communications between the polygamist leader and his followers. Fuhrman said the FBI has cooperated with other agencies, to the extent they could but added it is an ongoing investigation.
Task force?
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is urging the U.S. Justice Department to create a federal task force to look into polygamy and related crimes.
The Nevada senator accused Utah and Arizona of doing nothing about crimes in polygamy and said he was "embarrassed" for them. That angered Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, who penned a letter detailing prosecutions and victim outreach in polygamous communities. The two sides have now agreed to work together.
Beyond the rhetoric, Tolman said he did not believe a federal task force was necessary and said publicly announcing it inhibits any ability to actually investigate. Torgensen hopes they can still get federal input. "It wouldn't hurt to sit down one more time with our federal partners and walk through some of the potential issues," he said Thursday.
Tolman is willing to work with state authorities.
"We can't exceed what our authority is, and if people are clamoring for a federal task force as if that's the answer, I would argue that's red herring," he said. "What is really required is good, solid, investigative efforts on the part of state agencies ... added to that is whatever ability the FBI or others may be able to assist."
Source: Deseret News
LOL!
What a joke.
How about they start with BABYLAND?
PING!!
FReepmail to be added to the FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List
Yeah, you have to wonder, don’t you? I think these people are intimidated by this group’s power and, when crossed, violence. I keep thinking back to the Jim Jones/Jonestown era. I had relatives living in San Francisco at a time when this creep was running rampant. From what they said, every cop and politician in town (and beyond) was running scared—and after the Jonestown massacre, probably with good reason. I see lots of similarities, but I do think this fLDS group is far, far more dangerous.
I was thinking at first...is Utah going to deal with this...but towards the last, they are saying they will take care of it and do not want the Feds involved...I really don’t want Congress stepping in,either. As for Texas...we are doing ok...no one has been killed..no buildings burned down...
I read the article in complete disbelief. So this is the best the FBI can do? Our country’s in trouble.
Not only BABYLAND, there are just so many good places to start—but they DO have to start. It won’t be easy. In a closed society like this it’s hard to get a mole inside. However, they managed to do this with the mob, and with other groups. I suspect it’s more of a lack of will than anything else. But, if the people out here raise a big enough stink about YFZ, maybe they can somehow find the will to get this job done.
They’d better. What they have is an army of zombie-like, disposable people who view the rest of us as having no souls (so whatever they do to outsiders is ok), and who hate the government of this country enough to call their welfare scams “bleeding the beast.” Domestic terrorism is no less dangerous than the other kinds.
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