USAF Orders T-38 Stand Down

Aviation Week ^ | May 2, 2008 (That's what the website says) | David Hughes

[Yo-Yo]

The U.S. Air Force’s Air Education and Training Command suspended all T-38C Talon jet trainer flights on May 1 after a second fatal crash in as many weeks.

Two pilots were killed on the morning of May 1 when their aircraft assigned to the 80th Flying Training Wing at Sheppard Air Force Base crashed. Names of the victims of the latest accident have not been released.

The other crash occurred during takeoff of a T-38 at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi on April 23.

Instructor pilot Major Blair Faulkner of the 43rd Flying Training Squadron and student pilot 2nd Lt. Matthew Emmons died in the accident. The last Columbus AFB fatalities in an air accident occurred 24 years ago when two T-38s collided in 1984. Three people died in that mishap.

U.S. Air Force, General William R. Looney III, AETC commander, ordered the stand-down of T-38s.

“We have no evidence that these incidents are related. But until we have a more complete understanding of the causes of both accidents, it’s prudent to stand down the T-38’s,” he said.

The Air Force is investigating the accidents. It operates about 500 of the supersonic, twin engine T-38s to prepare student pilots to fly fighter and bomber aircraft.

[Yo-Yo]

[dr.zaeus]

Wait, wait, wait.

Don’t you mean a MIG. Everyone (who has watched Top Gun) knows that it’s a MIG-28!

Hardee Har Har!

[Yo-Yo]

Musta went down because they tried to fly inverted.

[theDentist]

[jaydubya2]

Didn't the T-38Cs just get an avionics upgrade to a glass cockpit? Coincidence?

[ironwill]

Wait, wait, wait. Don’t you mean a MIG. Everyone (who has watched Top Gun) knows that it’s a MIG-28!

I'm pretty sure those were F-20 Tigersharks, not T-38's.
F-20

T-38

[Yo-Yo]

According to this, upgrades started in 2002.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-38/

[dr.zaeus]

The two-seaters were T-38 Talons.

This might be a questionable source for aeronautics buffs, but...

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Top_Gun_-_Trivia/id/2056309

[jaydubya2]

Yes, but the upgrades were just completed in sept 07.

http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=6755ABBB-30FD-4FD8-A5AB-7960A90D2BC6&Dynamic=1&CFID=35185264&CFTOKEN=21603526

[Yo-Yo]

Top Gun used both F-5E single seat and F-5F (not T-38) two seat aircraft in filming.

[ironwill]

I stand corrected. F-5 Tigers not F-20 Tigersharks.

[uglybiker]

ONe of the dumbest movies....ever.

[LukeSW]

Didn't the T-38Cs just get an avionics upgrade to a glass cockpit? Coincidence?

Chances are it nothing to do with the avionics. My guess is that the guys that died in Wichita got into what is called an accelerated stall during the turn to final. Get a little slow in a T38 in the final turn, pull a little too hard late into the turn because you overshot, and you start falling with no time to react.

[dr.zaeus]

I don’t know about it being the dumbest.

As a former avionics tech on the F-16, I have to give “Iron Eagle” that honor.

[Yo-Yo]

I'll second that!

[Yo-Yo]

The movie was shot at Miramar, and the Navy used F-5Es and F-5Fs for their agressor squadron back then. Now I believe they use F-16s (F-16N?)

[OCC]

I remember seeing the USAF Thunderbirds flying T-38s back in the late 70's. They were supposedly chosen because of better MPG than the previously used F-4.

[Knitebane]

I was a contractor at VF-45 in Key West. We had one of the F-5Es that was used in the movie. From time to time it would get scuffed and the black paint would show through.

When the Adversary squadron in Key West was shut down, the A-4s went to the bone yard and most of the F/A-18s, F-5Es, F-5Fs and F-16Ns went to NAS Fallon. The rest went to the boneyard.

Nifty trivia: The F-16N is a F-16C with the F-16A cockpit and wing reinforcement to allow the ACMI pod to be carried in place of a Sidewinder on the right wingtip.

We had an odd bunch working for Lockheed Martin Logistics Management. We had old guys from both the Air Force and from Northrop that supported the Tigers, 30-something guys from the Air Force that supported the F-16s and a bunch of ex-Navy and Marine types that supported the F/A-18s.

[Yo-Yo]

Yup, I remember them. The Blue Angels transitioned from the F-4 to the A-4 roughly at the same time for the same reason. I also remember the horrible accident that led the Thunderbirds to switch to the F-16A.

[Yo-Yo]

Nifty trivia: The F-16N is a F-16C with the F-16A cockpit and wing reinforcement to allow the ACMI pod to be carried in place of a Sidewinder on the right wingtip.

Some more nifty trivia that I just learned: the F-16Ns were retired due to fuselage structure cracks, and now the Navy is flying embargoed Pakistani F-16As.