Posted on 04/25/2008 1:46:26 AM PDT by Pebcak
AUSTIN - An appeals court rejected pleas from the mothers of more than 400 children seized from a polygamist sect to immediately stop authorities from busing their kids to far-flung foster homes, but it agreed to hear arguments in the case next week.
(Excerpt) Read more at gosanangelo.com ...
Ping to the ping lists
Gee i wonder if any Normal everyday American is pissed off about this whole WACO-LIKE Adventure except this time they didn’t send in tanks to burn the evidence they convicted before a crime was committed or on a prank phone call and a DNA needle
When is to much to much ? how long before America stands up to Fascist criminal lawyers and judges trying to be your mama ?
oh well never mind it don’t concern us pass the bon bons and the remote wheel of fortune is coming on ...
Let me see here. If you are a girl, in this wonderful place, you are “given” to some older “gentleman” (whichever one has first choice in that round of the draft) in “marriage”, shortly after the onset of puberty. Thereafter, your job is to bear children and help keep them totally ignorant of absolutely everything except the will of the masters.
If you are born a boy, you can look forward to being kept totally ignorant also. Except after the onset of puberty, you are taken from the compound and set adrift on the streets of some large city (lots of opportunities there, you know). The old studs do not want competition for the “favors” of the young ladies.
Sounds a lot like the Amish life, except the Amish have a lot more choices.
Waco made me very angry also, but mainly because of the way in which it was handled. There are some very devilish distinctions in this particular case. There are some who argue that the people of Iraq did not require our assistance to be free of a very bad man, or men. What was/is the future for these hundreds of children in Texas? Do they not exist just to please their masters?
The kids have rights too.
It seems to me you are defending the indefensible.
Is it difficult for the kids, yes, but keep in mind that the children were not with their original mothers, since one of the sect's practices was to take infants away from the real moms and reassign them to other families, as part of its continuing shell game. And to build those enormous compounds, the sect leaders had all of their spiritual wives signed up on welfare, all of which went into the cult's big centralized pot, controlled by Jeffs and his deputies, at U.S. taxpayer expense.
So, in answer to to your rhetorical question, the answer is 'No,' average Americans are not pissed off at what is going on in Eldorado since they know evil when they see it.
Isn’t this busing adding to Global Warming?
Not as much as the hot air being spewed about how evil the state is being in this case and that nothing at all has been done wrong by the FLDS.
Good post, VR...and here’s a ping to the Flying Inmans.
FLDS ARE NOTHING LIKE THE AMISH
The Amish do not abuse children, turn females into breed stock, abandon males, cheat the welfare system, or worship a created being on the Planet Kolob.
The Amish do live a simple life as farmers, take excellent care of their women and children, pay taxes, and worship Christ Jesus.
Texas Dept. of Family and Protective Services
News Brief: Thursday, April 24, 2008 64 women and 63 children left the shelter at the San Angelo Coliseum Thursday.
17 women who each had a child under 12 months of age were taken to a placement where they and the children can remain together. Those children remain in the legal custody of the state.
The remaining 47 women who left the coliseum were offered the choice to either returning to the YFZ ranch or be taken to a safe location. Seven decided to return to the ranch, and 40 opted to go to the alternate location.
Additionally, DFPS has identified 25 girls who had initially said they were adults, but who are now believed to be minors. Those children are also being placed into foster care, and some of them were among the group placed Thursday.
Your statements are what is alleged, but even those alleging it don’t claim it happens to every girl, or every boy.
And this article is about mothers and their under-5 children. So it’s not dealing with the men who rape, the girls who were raped, or the teen boys who were still at the compound).
Up until now, the woman had a choice. They could go back to their homes without their kids, or they could stay in this temporary shelter with their kids.
Now they can’t stay with their kids. They haven’t had a hearing before a judge on their specific circumstances, which seems to be required by law, but their children are being transferred to foster care.
The state has said they would try to find places for the women to stay “nearby”, so the women might get a chance to still see their infants once in a while.
I don’t know whether this included the nursing mothers and children, or if they are still being kept together as the mothers are actually the life sustaining food source for those children.
Of course, you can always feed the kids other stuff.
The state hasn't even made that claim yet, and DNA tests were done to sort out that issue. Some have alleged that there is widespread reassignment of children.
I would note that one source of that information, Jessop, left the cult, and took her 8 children. Which means she must have known who her 8 children were, because nobody has claimed she kidnapped someone else's kids. So apparently it WAS possible to know who your kids were, at least for some women, and it is LIKELY that these women who have stayed with their children are actually the mothers of these children, or at least possible, especially the nursing mothers. There is now reports that up to 25 of the mothers at the site were under 18 at the time they gave birth. That's a lot of pregnant teens, but even if accurate, that leaves a lot of people who were not impregnated, in a group of over 460 children. Meaning that while it is horrible what was done, it was not universal, and there are probably some families who did not participate, and who in the end did not deserve to have their children taken from them. Normally, that's what the court system is for -- to give EACH family a chance to have a hearing before an impartial judge, where the actual evidence is presented against THEM, so the judge can decide if a temporary separation should be continued and the child placed in foster care. In this case, there were so many kids that the state said they couldn't give each family their right to a hearing, so they did it in a mass hearing. Many of the families hadn't met their lawyers yet, evidence was NOT presented against each individual, and in the end the case held mostly because the judge decided they needed to do DNA tests to see who the families really were. But now, while still waiting for that, they are sending kids to foster care. The parents have asked for their individual hearings they are entitled to under the law, but the separations are happening before they are heard on that topic. Most people are OK with that because they wrongly assume that the children are in a state of "stasis", with the foster care holding the children unharmed while the case is sorted out. But for those of us who see the foster care as an abuse of a child in it's own right (the taking of a child), for the families who are eventually found to have done no wrong, this outcome will have harmed their children for no good reason. And if it turns out that EVERY LAST ONE of the families is deemed unfit, the issue will still exist, because there is no way to KNOW at this point that all the families will be found unfit. What we DO know is that at least one woman, who was a member of the cult, who participated or at least did nothing to stop the torture of her own kid, eventually escaped the compound, knew who here 8 children were, took her 8 children, and has them in her custody now, seemingly without any untoward additional harm to them from her custody. In other words, we have an example of a woman from this cult who everybody on the pro-CPS side holds out as a good mother. And if there is ONE mother from the cult who can be trusted with her kids, and knows who her kids were, it is QUITE LIKELY that there are OTHER mothers who likewise know who their kids are and will be a protective loving parent.
I thought these 25 were mothers -- this just said they were girls who claimed they were adults. Am I misremembering, or did a different report say that these 25 had children?
And if so, are they being placed in homes with their children, or were their children taken from them?
Seven decided to return to the ranch, and 40 opted to go to the alternate location.
I thought yesterday they said the women were given a choice to go to the ranch, or go live near their children. And today someone mentioned they were given a chance to live near their children. THis article says "go to a safe house". Is this "go to a safe house" really the "go to a house near where the kids are", or is it something different.
I would have presumed that the women who were staying with their children, and were now given a choice, and did not go back to the compound, would have chosen to go be near their children -- so I thought these 40 were those women. Am I wrong -- this article and your commentary suggested they were scared to go back to the compound, NOT that they wanted to stay with their children.
In other words, I'd like to get the facts to avoid the spin. If 40 went to a safe house where they would NOT be with their kids, then it would be reasonable to say they didn't want to go back to the compound.
But if the 40 decided to relocated to be near their kids, then the real story is 7 women who were staying with their kids who would rather go back to the compound than have to relocate to still be with their kids.
Since that is two rather different perspectives, and since I know people were saying even today that the separated women were given a choice to live near their kids, I think it's important that we get the facts straight before making commentary about what it means.
Charles, we routinely cross swords on other topics, and I say this in the spirit of friendly debate, but you really are in denial here about what was happening on that compound and continues to happen in Colorado City, Hildale, and at many of the other known polygamist sect compounds in Utah. Legal hair splitting just does not cut it in this case, and from the get-go, cooperation from the “mothers” and children has been problematic, while the fathers have been hiding out trying to avoid charges of statuatory rape, incest, and outright mental and physical abuse. Come on man, open your eyes.
Do you have a link for that?
Oh? So you think pedophilia, rape, incest, abuse, waterboarding babies to teach them not to cry, turning boys loose on the streets when they become *competition* is what the Constitution defends?
I see you are solidly in the ranks of the cult defenders. Knowing what’s known about this group, how can you live with yourself?
PING!!
FReepmail to be added to the FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List
Maybe some women DO know who their kids are and are able to keep track of them. So what?
If they take your child, reassign it to another woman and then transfer her and the child to another place, she could run into them years later and never know it’s her child.
Same if she’s separated from her child from birth. If there’s several infants born at the some time, they were raised in a group, like a litter. If you’re handed any old child out of the group to nurse and it’s a different one each time, no way would you be sure which one is yours.
You need to get a much better grip on reality. Why on earth would you ever consider defending the kind of lifestyle this group embraces? You’ve done everything you can to cloud the issue and cast doubt on what’s coming out about this group.
How are you connected to them?
“Seems like the Appeals Court has no immediate issues with Judge Walther’s decisions.”
Notice how it has been three weeks now and we have not seen the crumbling, confusing, mushiness, from Texas that we have seen over and over from other states on things like the jury selection for OJ, and other cases where the system collapses because there is no will or commitment to a principle or the order of law.
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