Posted on 04/22/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by forkinsocket
Jews believe in the peace for various reasons. Some Jews are plainly self-hating, and just want a trouble for the Jewish state. Others are too tired of war, and just want to close their eyes to see the ivory tower of peace and happy relations between Jews, Egyptians, Iranians and whoever else. Some are primitive rationalists – look at the numbers of Jews in the utopian movements such as the communist one – and believe that every human problem, however immensely complex, can be reduced to a formula, discussed, and settled. Some politicians are crooks who use peace process to fool the masses into electing them. Some, notably the security establishment officials, see clearly that military methods fail to solve the problem, and opt for peace settlement. They just don’t realize that even in mathematics, and surely in social relations, some problems are inherently unsolvable. Or it may be the other way around: the leftist Israeli establishment appoints the brainwashed ultra-leftists for security positions, and naturally they support the hollow peace.
So instead of seeking an immediate solution, which ought to be wrong, Jews must accept the reality of intermittent low-level conflict which would drag on for the foreseeable future. We really don’t know what would happen in a few decades. Improvements in nuclear power generation can devaluate oil, causing immense poverty and hunger in overpopulated Arab countries. Such a scenario would increase the number of desperate terrorists but diminish the threat by impoverished regular Arab armies.
Arabs might get nuclear weapons, and surely leak them to terrorists who might or might not detonate them in Israel. That threat would only increase if peace agreements are signed, as Israel will find it diplomatically hard to preempt against friendly Arabs’ nuclear facilities.
Arabs might breed in Israel to the third of voters, join coalition with Jewish ultra-left and non-Jewish parties, and vote Jewish state out of existence, thus solving the problem of coexistence with Arabs. Or Jews might drive the hostile elements out of Israel.
There are so many unknown variables in the peace process that trying to predict it amounts to nonsense. Some things, however, are easy to understand. The Arabs don’t need peace with Israel: both peace and its absence are fine with them. They don’t need Israel’s assistance and don’t fear her attacks. Peace treaty won’t change the Arab behavior: they will continue supporting anti-Israeli terrorists if only to drain their countries of radicals and won’t entrust Israel to be a vizier of Muslim funds (economic cooperation). The only substantial economic feature that would come out of Israeli-Arab peace is heavy investment by Muslims in the politically sensitive Israeli real estate, the process which is well underway now and only waiting to be legalized.
Arabs, being completely indifferent to the peace process, offer Israel no concessions: Judea and Samaria must be abandoned, Jerusalem divided, and the refugees – compensated, with some of them allowed returning to Israel. That’s not really a peace plan, but an odd demand for capitulation of a victorious power to the defeated aggressors.
Israel, on the contrary, gives way continuously and receives nothing in return. Arabs did not reciprocate the evacuation of Jewish settlements from Gaza, a major step which divided Jewish nation and left a scar for decades. Rather, Arabs intensified their attacks on Israel. Superficially, that applies to Palestinian militants only, but they enjoy support of every major Muslim state: Syria (weapons), Iran (money and training), Egypt (logistics), and Saudi Arabia (money and diplomatic support).
Back in 1972, Sadat offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for the Sinai and the Golan Heights, with no heed paid to the Palestinian state. Recently, Saudis offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem. Now Israel negotiates with the Palestinians minute details of transferring them Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem without expecting reciprocal peace with Arabs countries. The terms become progressively worse.
But the real peace problem, it’s not without, it’s within Israel. Israeli Arabs form a third of Israel’s young and absolute majority in several regions. The Jewish state now abandons religiously, historically, and strategically important lands to the Palestinian state so as not to be swarmed by two million Arabs living there. Reduced to the nine-mile-wide beachside state, Israel will be swarmed by her own Arabs – who accept no peace process. It is an official policy of the PLO – indeed, a democratic maxim – that the Palestinians will breed to majority in Israel and then vote to unify it with the West Bank Palestine. Moderates among Palestinians proclaim they have no problem with Jews living in the resulting Arab state.
Time solves the insolvable problems. Communism vanished from the book of time, leftist terrorism of 1970s ran to the end, and Islamic terrorism won’t be eternal. Radical ideas do not last long as burning societies fall back into tranquility. The current levels of Palestinian terrorism are artificial, entirely propped by Beilin-Peres policies which brought the defeated PLO from Tunisia to the West Bank, enthroned it, subsidized heavily, and promoted internationally as a peace partner. So a shabby cat felt itself a lion. Palestinians support fighting Israel for two reasons: hope and hopelessness. A hope to prevail, and daily hopelessness of their lives. Both can be solved, by the overwhelming force and emigration, respectively. The Muslim Brotherhood, PLO, Hamas, in turn became political organizations; other guerrillas will follow the same road. Palestinians will always remain hostile to Israel, as Jews took over what the Palestinians think is their land. Such hostility would translate into low-level sabotage, but not a meaningful war.
The peace process lacks a historical precedent. Never did hostile states negotiated peace for decades under fire. Peace never came through negotiations, but only through one side’s defeat. America negotiated with Vietnam for decades, but Vietnam was not at war with America; North Vietnam was at war with the South – and utterly defeated it. So the peace process failed in Vietnam, like elsewhere. Peace process is a leftist fallacy, a primitive rationalist approach to immensely complex problems which in fact can be exhausted, but never solved.
Exhausting the Palestinian problem is easy, and Israel did it with success: behead the national organizations, expel their leaders, everyone of the slightest stance in Palestinian society. No great numbers are involved: ousting a few thousand top members of Fatah, Hamas, and other popular organizations would do. When Israel kept systematically expelling PLO associates in 1960-80s, everything was quiet on our Western Front. Even though the PLO tried ruling Palestine through its Department of Popular Organizations which oversaw everything down to students unions, it was nothing compared to the electrifying fact of Arafat’s presence in the West Bank. Beilin-Peres clique brought Arafat from Tunisia to the West Bank, literally let the jinn of terrorism out of the bottle. They meant good, they meant Arafat to be their peace puppet. So they were wrong. As usual, societies pay in blood for leftists’ crumbling projects.
The majority of the Netherlands’ population was good to Jews during Holocaust. But the problem is, the Dutch were also good toward their minority who collaborated with Germans. The minority hunted us, and so 75% of Jews were murdered. The majority of Israelis are decent Jews who wish their country well. But unless they stand up to the vicious leftist minority, too few Jews would survive in Israel.
“Just tell how it is the Jews’ fault if the Palis can’t organize a remotely civilized or productive entity. Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. The Palis turned everything economically valuable into garbage.”
Okay, I’ll tell you how. Israel removed its settlers from Gaza but Israel still controls Gaza’s airspace, territorial water, and land borders, except for its border with Egypt. Israel also controls Gaza’s telecommunications network, customs and tax revenues, not to mention Israel’s putting a blockade on imports.
“Gazans can’t turn on the lights, get tap water, buy enough food, or earn a living without Israel’s consent.” (quote from Joe Stork, Human Rights Watch).
Israel also controls Gaza’s telecommunications network, customs and tax revenues, not to mention Israel’s putting a blockade on imports.
That's to the benefit of the Gazans. As we have seen after HAMAS took charge, everything they tough turns into sh*t. They murdered Fatah men in the streets, looted and pillaged and let Gaza stew in sewage. Without Israel controlling the infrastructure, there would be no infrastructure in Gaza at all. Anyway why should Israel put at Hamas' disposal? So they can more easily finance the murder of Jews?
What that means is, Israel still controls Israel's borders.
Just for grins, what do the "Human Rights Watch" dudes have to say about the rockets that the Gazans are constantly shooting into Sderot?
Right on, Alouette! Give it ‘em back, as the Cockneys used to say to Churchill in 1940-41!
It’s (zip.com) account has been suspended.
One small flush for man, one big leap for good sense and good tase.
“Without Israel controlling the infrastructure, there would be no infrastructure in Gaza at all.”
Just where do you get your “news”? The Weekly Standard?
You can reject whatever sources as credible and believe that the Gazans would never get out of poverty anyway (and maybe they wouldn’t), but that doesn’t change the facts as far as what Israel still controls and the blockade, which would hamper anybody’s economy.
Human Rights Watch, in their letter to UN Human Rights Council, Jan. 22, concerning Hamas:
“Hamas and Palestinian Armed Groups
1. Cease Unlawful Rocket Attacks
According to the United Nations, from mid-June 2007 to December 25, 2007, armed Palestinian groups in Gaza fired 632 ‘Qassam’ rockets and 921 mortar bombs into Israel, injuring 82 Israeli citizens.
“The rockets fired by Palestinian armed groups violate the international humanitarian law prohibition on indiscriminate attacks because they are highly inaccurate and cannot be directed at a specific military target. Where there is no intended military target and the rockets are fired into a civilian area, such as the Israeli town of Sderot, they constitute deliberate attacks against civilians. Because Hamas exercises power inside Gaza, it is responsible for stopping unlawful attacks even when carried out by other groups.
“2. Stop Arbitrary Detention and Torture
Since forcibly taking over Gaza in June, Hamas has assumed control of the security services and judicial bodies. Hamas has been carrying out arrests and running detention centers, although it is not a law enforcement agency nor is it empowered by law to exercise these functions. Hamas-run security forces – the Qassam Brigades and Executive Force – have engaged in torture and inhumane and degrading treatment of detainees during interrogation, frequently members or supporters of Fatah.”
So I guess at least Human Rights Watch doesn’t take one side while giving a pass to the other no matter what they do, like you apparently do.
BTW, Israel still controls Gaza’s coast and airspace.
That was an uncalled for personal attack.
BTW, Israel still controls Gaza’s coast and airspace.
The U.S. Coast Guard patrols Canadian coast and airspace all along the Detroit River.
And Muslims would make similar claims about you.
No. The JEws of Hebron were not doing that in 1929.
Think GWB will ask King Hussein why his nation has a death penalty on the books for selling land to a Jew when he visits tomorrow?
“That was an uncalled for personal attack.”
My mistake, then. From my reading of your many posts where you’ve excused Israel’s actions, including their spying on the U.S. and selling our technology to China, I thought that you are one of the blind followers of the state of Israel.
“The U.S. Coast Guard patrols Canadian coast and airspace all along the Detroit River.”
Does the U.S. control Canada’s ports and blockade their imports too? I didn’t know that.
Memo from “typical ‘bitter’ White Male” to Vicious Babushka:
You’re getting my Amen Corner going!
If Detroit and Wyandotte were getting shelled daily by rockets launched from Windsor and Amherstberg, you bet your sweet ass!
You forgot my applauding of the Israeli hora-dancers on the rooftops of New Jersey on 9/11, and cheering on the collapse of the U.S. economy due to cheap Chinese imports when the Israelis bought out Sam Walton, Inc.
[that was sarcasm, boys and girls]
So when they accept Christ as their savior the muzzies will suddenly stop hating them?
Well, that’s good. This is a site for people who support freedom, democracy, the USA, and its allies.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.