Posted on 04/21/2008 10:23:21 PM PDT by Howdy there
SAN ANGELO, Texas —
In another stage of their public relations campaign to battle stereotypes and speak out against the raid that placed 437 children in state protective custody, the Fundamentalist LDS faithful are speaking out on the Internet.
A pair of Web sites were unveiled Monday in an effort to explain the FLDS beliefs and rally public sympathy behind the polygamous sect.
On captivefldschildren.org, photos and video of the raid were posted showing law enforcement's raid on the YFZ Ranch, Texas child protective services workers rounding up children and putting them on buses, and damage apparently done by law enforcement when they searched the compound.
"This site was created by the FLDS people to help the innocent children that were living at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas," the site says, including a link to donations to help defray legal costs. Sources at the YFZ Ranch confirmed that the church was behind the creation of the Web sites. Information about who registered the Internet domain names was run through a Canadian company specializing in ensuring the information is kept private.
Pro-polygamy activist Mary Batchelor e-mailed supporters links to the Web sites on Monday. "I don't know if it's real or not but the pictures on there could only have come from those people," Batchelor said. "I'm excited they're doing this, they're really speaking out."
The companion Web site, fldstruth.org, said its goal is to counter the "many lies" circulating around the church. The site promises to provide facts about the church's doctrines, beliefs and teachings. A photo timeline of the FLDS leaders appears to still be under construction.
"And knowing that truth must be the basis of all righteous considerations as pertains to the great redemption work of our Savior in these latter days; we seek to disabuse the minds of the honest in heart, of the deceptions inherent in reports from malicious and evil disposed persons," the site said.
Once known as secretive and cloistered, the FLDS have gone on a public relations offensive since their children were taken earlier this month. They opened the gates of the Yearning For Zion Ranch to the Deseret News before inviting other news media outlets to visit the compound.
FLDS members have also been guests on "Larry King Live," and other TV talk shows denouncing allegations of abuse and pleading for the return of their children.
No you're not. You keep posting the number of underage pregnancies without showing how many kids are in the system. The percent of underage pregnancies in FLDS is much higher than the foster system. The foster system does have problems, but not nearly as much as FLDS.
Is that so hard?
Actually, I really do know. I've already answered one person's question along the same lines.
I'm just not interested in playing your games.
There are ten pregnancies or births that are known at this point to females between the ages of 16-18 from the FLDS ranch. I believe we can assume those were within “marriages” which occur with parental consent.
So how do you compare that, as bad as it may be, to children who are raped in the foster care system, 13% who were age 3 or under?
How do you compare the ten females age 16 or older who are pregnant or have given birth to having a 1 in 4 higher chance of being murdered now that they are in foster care?
As “bad” as the belief is that 16 year olds can enter plural marriages, it certainly pales in comparison to the abuses these kids will encounter within the totally corrupt Texas foster care system.
“Boys don’t seem to have been at risk at all.”
Others have a different tale to tell.
FLDS Prophet’s Nephew Testifies and Speaks Out Against Sexual Abuse Inside Compound
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003838/posts
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The authorities weren’t acting on what they thought was an anonymous outside tip. They’ve been well aware of this groups goings on for years. Warren Jeffs is serving time for arranging marriages of underage girls. They got a call from a girl who was INSIDE the compound stating that she herself was being abused. Their history gives her statements a lot of credibility. They couldn’t ignore a clear cry for help.
And people who abuse one child are going to abuse others. And the testimony of people like Flora and Caroyn Jessop about what goes on in there verifies it.
And you propose just letting the whole thing go?
Don’t tell you this.... Don’t tell you that....
I guess you don’t want to hear the truth.
If parents are later deemed unfit to be parents, then you have just placed every child under their care in worse danger by leaving them there. These kids have Constitutional rights as well, and they are being denied that. They have the right to know who their birth parents are and live with THEM.
As far as doing the cult a favor, we don’t take the boys, cause that’s just what they’d want? What kind of twisted thinking is that? Better to just leave them and have the cult kick them out later, I suppose.
How's that? Get a call from the inside? Done.
Get a warrant? Done.
Talk to the kids for some time before removing them? Done.
What's your idea of doing this *properly*?
Get real with what really is going on and that’s something we don’t know all about yet.
If we don't know about it yet, how can we know that we don't really know what's going on? How do you know that what we've been told isn't what's really going on? It's all a big plot to deceive us and take away our rights.....
Are you another conspiracy theorist?
How do you punish everyone in a perfect world which we don’t have?
It's not possible to punish every single crime, but that doesn't mean you don't do something about the ones you can. You do what you can and the ones who don't get caught, don't get caught. Crap happens.
The people from this compound seem unable to tell anyone which kids go to which adults. You can't turn the kids over to just any adult who claims them without any proof that the child is theirs. So how do you determine that?
The fathers in this compound are the ones responsible for the confusion. No birth certificates, reassigning children and wives as they see fit. If they don't like it, they brought it on themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Well, In the Mormon religion their god changes his mind, makes mistakes, corrects them, oops, changes his mind again etc. Guess it’s no suprise that their god can’t remember who is “his” unless mormon’s write it down.
I think I saw you mention something about the Book of Mormon teaching that there were Jews in America. That really isn't doctrine. I told you you could assume that every fact in the Book of Mormon was fictional. As a matter of fact, I believe it is entirely fictional. My question was simply for you to tell me what it is that the Book of Mormon teaches that you are "adamantly against."
I garnered from your post that you were suggesting that maybe you disagreed with some doctrine that was taught in the Book of Mormon. So far you either been unable or unwilling to tell me what doctrines, if any, that are taught in the Book of Mormon that you would disagree with.
A lot of people are simply unaware that there really isn't any unique LDS doctrine taught in the Book of Mormon that was not common to many denominations in the 1830's when Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. All the weird stuff came later, after the Book of Mormon was published.
Now you claimed that were teachings in the Book of Mormon you are adamantly against. I really would like to know what teachings, if any, you are so adamantly opposed to which are taught in the Book of Mormon. Is that too hard of a question?
I'm just not interested in playing your games.
Honestly I don't know why you are so opposed to answering my simple questions. Does not 1 Pet 3:15 admonish Christians to give unto "every man an answer"? Do you have any good reasons why you should not give me an answer?
Your selective rip of a part of a verse does nothing to make your case.
The hope that is within me is not there because of the Book of Mormon.
I don't believe it, and I don't answer for it.
If you want to start an anti-Mormon thread, by all means do so, and see if you can get someone else to play with you.
I ain't the one.
IIRC you were the one who made the Anti-Mormon comments here.
But your categorical refusal to answer my questions is noted.
Go play your games with someone who is interested.
Throughout this thread I have constantly refused to be drawn into your Mormon bashing.
There I stand.
That's probably because YOU never asked ME how I would do it better. It checked your posting history and can't find it there. Where was it that you asked me how I would do it better?
So why should I post a better solution? I'm not the one criticizing the government here, saying they got it all wrong and screwed up and are nazi jackbooted thugs and all.
I don't think they could have done it better. They got warrants, they interviewed the kids at the compound for some time before deciding to remove them. I'm sure they had plenty of legal advice on how to do this without blowing it. They know what's at stake here.
I don't see where they are separating nursing mothers from their babies, either. If you have a source for that, please provide it. On the contrary, I've read that they're doing their best to keep mothers with young children together.
How would you do it better? I put forward something.
You didn't put forward much of anything. You're suggestions didn't deal with any legal issues, just that you'd have left some kids there to suffer who knows what fate.
You call these people "my" prophets.
You are assuming 1) that I am Mormon, 2) that I am a "good" Mormon, 3) that I follow these prophets, 4) that I not open to other possibilities, and 5) that you are always correct and have the right to judge who is a good Christian.
I have been appointed once to die and after that the judgment. Christ admonished us to preach the gospel and beware of false prophets.
These prophets of whom you speak, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and presumably the current leader of the LDS church have also been appointed to die and must be held accountable for their words and actions while they were here on the earth. I would hate to bear that heavy responsibility, and I am glad that I don't.
God will judge them. That is His perogative.
You have a right to choose whether you will follow them or not, as do I.
I have not told you what to believe or how to be a good Christian. Do I not deserve the same respect from you?
Ok how would you do it better? Now I am asking. Don’t duck and dodge and say you are not the state. Give us a real answer. I did my stupid bit you do yours.
So why should I post a better solution? I'm not the one criticizing the government here, saying they got it all wrong and screwed up and are nazi jackbooted thugs and all.
I don't think they could have done it better. They got warrants, they interviewed the kids at the compound for some time before deciding to remove them. I'm sure they had plenty of legal advice on how to do this without blowing it. They know what's at stake here.
If I thought they did it legally, why should I be criticizing them and how would I think they could have done it better?
I already answered your question. I don't think they could have.
Are you a Mormon?
My understanding is that there is at least 6 pregnancies under the age of 16.
That gives FLDS an underage birth rate of 1.5% compared to the foster system at 0.6%.
But if the reports of girls at 16 already having 4 children are true, you’re going to see those numbers skyrocket. We will know as soon as the DNA results are all in.
Kids in Texas foster care don't have a 1 in 4 chance of being murdered. You're deliberatly mistating the facts to make them sound worse than they are.
FLDS care is worse than Foster care. But Foster care is worse than the average Texas family care.
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