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To: AndrewC
There are a number of scientists and academics who've been fired, denied tenure, lost tenure or lost grants because they even suggested the possibility of intelligent design. The most egregious is Richard Sternberg at the Smithsonian, the editor of a magazine that published a peer-reviewed paper about ID. He lost his job. Some of the people we interviewed wouldn't even talk on camera for fear of the repercussions. Our goal is to encourage free speech.

Source

What job did Sternberg lose? People have lost jobs -- real paying jobs -- as a result of opposing creationism. Start with Texas. Sternberg lost nothing.

Expelled -- at least the promos -- seem to argue that the victims are all on the side of God, and the villains are all proponents of Big Science.

I merely offer to study the charge of discrimination by comparing the career paths of people who signed the Discovery Institute statement with a similar sized group who signed a statement opposing ID.

345 posted on 04/25/2008 9:52:44 PM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
What job did Sternberg lose? People have lost jobs -- real paying jobs -- as a result of opposing creationism. Start with Texas. Sternberg lost nothing.

Well the article you presented was not promotional material, but I will accept the citation as discussion material. Stein does say people were fired and did say Sternberg lost his job.

Your example of people losing their positions I will also accept as losing a job, however, Ms Comer evidently resigned. Taking that as an example Dr. Sternberg also resigned from the editorship of the publication at the center of his controversy. He indicates so on his site, but unlike Ms. Comer he does not indicate pressure from the journal. He does indicate pressure from the Smithsonian. To make a long story short, the U.S. OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL does indicate pressure from the Smithsonian on Sternberg due to his activities as the editor. This is validated by a simple reading of the email traffic. This pressure would be illegal had Sternberg been an employee, but due to recent legal decisions he was not considered to be covered by the law which protects the "employees" of the Smithsonian. Somehow Darwinians justify that treatment simply because he was not an employee, because it was legal. It is also legal to have an anchor baby, but is that activity right? Be that as it may, his treatment was worse than your example. Your article indicates that Ms Comer was legitimately treated for activities counter to the workplace from the workplace.

The move came shortly after Comer forwarded an e-mail announcing a presentation being given by the author of Inside Creationism's Trojan Horse. In the book, author Barbara Forrest says creationist politics are behind the movement to get intelligent design theory taught in public schools. Comer sent the e-mail to several individuals and a few online communities.

Here the TEA indicates one of the reasons for her treatment.

"Ms. Comer's e-mail implies endorsement of the speaker and implies that TEA endorses the speaker's position on a subject on which the agency must remain neutral," the officials said.

It is up to the TEA to decide what the policy is for TEA employee's and not the employee. I work for the government and there are things that I cannot do. One of which is exactly what she did(notice the word politics in the description of the book). I would have broken the law had I done what she did, but she is a state employee. There are other activities of Ms Comer noted in the article that also are not beneficial to a career.

I don't have time to take your suggestion, but I think it might be very interesting. But I can also provide evidence that real or not there is a perceived danger to espousing ID within the centers of learning.

From the following article:

Intelligent design:  Who has designs on your students' minds?

Nature 434, 1062-1065 (28 April 2005)

doi: 10.1038/4341062a

In contrast, William Dembski, a mathematician at Baylor University in Texas and another prominent intelligent-design researcher, says that he is no longer allowed to teach on campus. "Essentially I've had about a five-year sabbatical," he complains. Stories such as Dembski's make some intelligent-design supporters fearful of expressing their views in public. One researcher, approached by Nature for this article, declined to be interviewed because he did not yet have tenure.

Addendum

Comer said she paused for a moment before forwarding the Forrest e-mail, but she felt sending it was OK because of Forrest's credentials.

Why did she pause?

347 posted on 04/25/2008 11:41:42 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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