Ben Stein Exposes Richard Dawkins (Dawkins admits possibility of ID, Just Not God).

Townhall ^ | April 21, 2008 | Dinesh D'Souza

[tacticalogic]

Well that would be considered an opinion, but my opinion actually used the word "similar" which does not imply "no less".

How much less are we talking about then?

Is not Natural selection a core element of Darwinism?

I think so, but don't see that as being pertinent right now. If you want to take that up as a separate issue, we can.

[AndrewC]

How much less are we talking about then?

How about letting people freely use the word ID in their workplace without fear of reprisal.

I think so, but don't see that as being pertinent right now.

It is pertinent because you stated "I'd expect any questions that "strike at the core" of an argument to be answered directly". The only question pertaining to a "core" element was that concerning natural selection.

[tacticalogic]

How about letting people freely use the word ID in their workplace without fear of reprisal.

That's kind of a can of worms. If I start trying to turn every discussion anyone tries to have with me into something to do with ID, people are going to start getting justifiably irritated.

[AndrewC]

That's kind of a can of worms. If I start trying to turn every discussion anyone tries to have with me into something to do with ID, people are going to start getting justifiably irritated.

I did not say that you had to use the word, so I assume you mean that allowing the use of the word "ID" would lead to a fixation by the users of the word. I don't believe that is a justified conclusion. But I do understand your concern. Dawkins comes to mind.

[tacticalogic]

I did not say that you had to use the word, so I assume you mean that allowing the use of the word "ID" would lead to a fixation by the users of the word. I don't believe that is a justified conclusion. But I do understand your concern. Dawkins comes to mind.

If you're trying to make the argument that there are evolution zealots, but there's simply no such thing as an ID zealot I'm calling BS.

[AndrewC]

If you're trying to make the argument that there are evolution zealots, but there's simply no such thing as an ID zealot I'm calling BS.

And you would be absolutely correct. But I'm not saying that. I'm saying Dawkins has a fixation. But that in no way leads to the conclusion that Darwinism should ever be unmentionable.

[tacticalogic]

I’m not opposed to letting people talk about it, as long as there’s some way to throttle the zealots if they get militant without it all turning into a big legal mess.

[AndrewC]

I’m not opposed to letting people talk about it, as long as there’s some way to throttle the zealots if they get militant without it all turning into a big legal mess.

Hey we agree! Science is not about browbeating.

[tacticalogic]

Hey we agree! Science is not about browbeating.

Well, you're going to have to do a little better than "letting people talk about it without fear of reprisal" or that's what your going to end up with. That's an open ended license to prosthelytize.

[AndrewC]

That's an open ended license to prosthelytize.

Strange how freedom works. It is a wonder the United States can exist with an open ended license to proselytize.

[tacticalogic]

Strange how freedom works. It is a wonder the United States can exist with an open ended license to proselytize.

Don't start with that crap. We're talking about in the workplace, remember? The right to free speech doesn't mean I get to spend all day at the water cooler shooting the breeze, or sitting in my cube singing at the top of my lungs. My boss isn't violating my rights by telling me I can't, and I'm not the "victim" if I do it anyway and get canned for it.

[AndrewC]

Don't start with that crap

You're the one that started with the slippery slope crap. It is a logical fallacy. Look it up.

[tacticalogic]

I don’t think it’s all that slippery. People do weird things when they get emotional, and this is a very emotional issue for some people.

[AndrewC]

I don’t think it’s all that slippery. People do weird things when they get emotional, and this is a very emotional issue for some people

It may be an emotional issue for some, but that does not make the slippery slope argument any more valid.

[tacticalogic]

It may be an emotional issue for some, but that does not make the slippery slope argument any more valid.

Do you think there's no chance that biology department staff meetings and symposiums could end up looking like FR crevo threads, or that it doesn't matter if they do?

[AndrewC]

Do you think there's no chance that biology department staff meetings and symposiums could end up looking like FR crevo threads, or that it doesn't matter if they do?

It takes two sides to tango. If you examine the emails within the Smithsonian on the Sternberg matter, you will discover who would be the source of the "food fights" that you fear. In the example of Guillermo Gonzalez from Iowa State. The controversy was started those seeking to expel any mention of ID and was not a result of any proselytizing.

[tacticalogic]

It takes two sides to tango. If you examine the emails within the Smithsonian on the Sternberg matter, you will discover who would be the source of the "food fights" that you fear. In the example of Guillermo Gonzalez from Iowa State. The controversy was started those seeking to expel any mention of ID and was not a result of any proselytizing.

That doesn't answer the question. The question is, is the tango going to get destructive?

[AndrewC]

That doesn't answer the question. The question is, is the tango going to get destructive?

What question? Your hypothetical slippery slope argument? I answered it. It is a logical fallacy. It is your task to prove that the result is an inevitable consequence of the starting conditions. Otherwise, it is just your fantasy which I am under no obligation to accept.

[tacticalogic]

We’re done.

[Sun]

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