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The international kilogram conundrum[Weights have mysteriously fluctuated]
LA Times ^ | 17 Apr 2008 | Jia-Rui Chong

Posted on 04/20/2008 5:58:33 PM PDT by BGHater

In the more than a century since 'perfect' platinum-iridium cylinders were first used as the world's kilogram standards, their weights have mysteriously fluctuated. Scientists are rethinking what the measure means.

GAITHERSBURG, MD. -- Forty feet underground, secured in a temperature- and humidity-controlled vault here, lies Kilogram No. 20.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: kilogram; standards; weights
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To: CodeToad
And what a stupid means of trying to justify the meter, an arbitrary unit of length. “Hold out your hands”??

I wasn't trying to justify anything, you unbelievably dimwit, I was trying to explain what it means to have an "intuitive grasp" of a system of measurement, since you demonstrated with your absolutely retarded question that you didn't understand the concept. But as I suspected, attempting to explain anything to you is an exercise in futility.

81 posted on 04/20/2008 7:27:38 PM PDT by Politicalities
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To: Politicalities

But I would assume from the story that the LAST time they were compared, the differences were “different”. Are we really that much better at this now than we were a couple years ago when they were last compared?

And the chart suggests that all the variations have been in the same general directions. That actually lends credence to the idea that there were more extra particles in the seals for some than others. But do they break the seals to do the mass check?

Maybe there is a mundane explanation — there should be one, because this isn’t an area where we have a lot of unknowns.

But it is certainly a curiosity.


82 posted on 04/20/2008 7:33:22 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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“Three inch....” ~ may be your reality, but we are Freepers and live with an entirely different order of magnitude~!


83 posted on 04/20/2008 7:35:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BGHater

This is clearly a dark matter-dark energy interaction, just like all the other observed physical phenomena which contradict the standard model. Please forward me my grant award to publish my analysis.


84 posted on 04/20/2008 7:43:04 PM PDT by Philo-Junius (One precedent creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law.)
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To: CodeToad
"yet, the pound still exists as it has for centuries against the grain, exactly 7,000 grains per pound, a more meaningful definition than the kilo"

A pound is NOT a more meaningful definition or measure of weight. A kilo is merely 1000 grams. A nice even number, which can be infinitely divided in units of 10. Very simple to remember.

1 milligram (mg) = 1/1,000,000 kilogram = 1/1,000 gram
1 centigram (cg) = 1/100,000 kilogram = 1/100 gram
1 decigram (dg) = 1/10,000 kilogram = 1/10 gram
1 gram (g) = 1/1,000 kilogram
1 dekagram (dkg) = 1/100 kilogram = 10 grams
1 hectogram (hg) = 1/10 kilogram = 100 grams

1 kilogram (kg; basic unit of wieght or mass

1 metric ton (t) = 1,000 kilograms
What is a grain? A grain of sand,a grain of wheat? What does the average grain weight? that entire system is stupid.

1 grain = 1/7,000 pound = 1/437.5 ounce
1 dram (dr) = 1/256 pound= 1/16 ounce
1 ounce (oz) = 1/16 pound
1 pound (lb; basic unit of weight or mass)
1 short hundredweight = 100 pounds
1 long hundredweight = 112 pounds
1 short ton = 2,000 pounds
1 long ton = 2,240 pounds

Completely retarded.

that's why any meaningful science uses metric measures. Metric tools aren't confusing to lame brains. each wrench is one mm bigger than the next. Never mind that 5/16,3/8,7/16/1/2,9/16,5/8,11/16 etc. stuff which, when you ask the average high school graduate to go get my 9/16 wrench, has to look at each one even if it's a tiny 5/16 wrench because he can't picture that its bigger than 1/2 inch, or know that 9-16ths of an inch is bigger than 8-16ths of an inch (thats another name for 1/2 inch if you haven't figured it out yet)

85 posted on 04/20/2008 7:44:40 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: Amendment10; All
why didn't scientists foresee that the gravity dependent weights of these reference masses wouldn't necessarily behave. What am I overlooking?

They DID foresee that weight can vary. That's why they aren't measuring the weight of the masses. They are measuring the difference in their masses. They are using a highly accurate device equivalent to a double pan balance. If you place equal masses on each pan of a double pan balance, the needle points straight up. If one is more massive, the needle tilts to that side.

If you took equal masses to the moon and checked them on a double pan balance, they would be shown to be equal, even thought the gravitational field strength is different.

As several people on this thread have mentioned, the varying gravitational field is irrelevant in this comparison.

87 posted on 04/20/2008 7:52:48 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: tokenatheist
"Evolution, no matter how many times you say it does, does not cover the origin of life. Repeating that it does even thought you have been corrected numerous time borders on the deliberate spreading of untruths."

Of course it does. What are you, a Muslim? Do you think you can start the history of evolution where ever you find it convenient and less embarrassing?

You always see evolutionist use that picture of a monkey progressing into a man. What turned into the monkey? A duck, a fish, a salamander?

What progressed into the duck, fish or salamander?

Keep going backwards down the evolutionary scale, and you end up with rocks.

Deny it all you want, but that's the theory.

88 posted on 04/20/2008 7:53:19 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: John Jorsett
My guess is that some of the caretakers have been using them as paperweights.

No, it's probably more along the lines of:

Why yes, that IS a kilogram in my pocket, but I'm still happy to see you!

89 posted on 04/20/2008 7:58:07 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Politicalities
"My God, do you think that every single scientist in the world is a moron?"

Well, yes. According to the UN they are anyway. After all they all agree Al gore is bang on with his global warming theory. Those "top scientists" even gave him a nobel prize, so it HAS to be true.

True, MASS is independent of gravity, but weight isn't, and thats what we are talking about.

90 posted on 04/20/2008 8:00:24 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary
Keep going backwards down the evolutionary scale, and you end up with rocks.

Deny it all you want, but that's the theory.

You may want to read up on the theory so you actually know what it is, rather than simply spout what you wish it was...

91 posted on 04/20/2008 8:04:20 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: ConservativeMind
"There is no disadvantage for mastery of either COMPLETELY DIFFERENT language, so how, on Earth, can having different units be such a limiting problem?"

If you were a mechanic, you'd quickly find that out after having to buy two sets of tools instead of one. Three sets if you work on British cars.

The world runs a little smoother when everyone is on the same page.

92 posted on 04/20/2008 8:05:17 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: CodeToad
The meter fits nothing, not even the speed of light or a unit of Earthly measure,

The meter was originally defined so that the great circle distance from the equator to the north pole would be exactly 10 million meters.

93 posted on 04/20/2008 8:15:49 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Fine, start with the first life form then. Makes no diff. to me. (but it still evolved from rocks)


94 posted on 04/20/2008 8:17:11 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: KarlInOhio

I know that, but I believe my response to the other poster addresses his question.


95 posted on 04/20/2008 8:22:45 PM PDT by coloradan (The US is becoming a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Nathan Zachary
True, MASS is independent of gravity, but weight isn't, and thats what we are talking about.

Um, kilograms are units of mass. Newtons are units of force, which has the same dimensions as weight. These are 1 kg masses (supposedly) of stuff, not so many Newtons of force.

The pounds is a unit of force, but the kilogram isn't.

96 posted on 04/20/2008 8:26:47 PM PDT by coloradan (The US is becoming a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: wideminded

Yep, and when that didn’t work out due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere they changed it to light speed, and they have changed even that number more than once. For Earthly measures I prefer Nautical Miles. They work just fine both as a pilot and a scientist. Next thing you know the UN folks will want us to change to a ten hour day with 100 decihours, with 1000 millihours.


97 posted on 04/20/2008 8:27:28 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: CodeToad
The foot is far more accurate and so is the inch....

The meter fits nothing, not even the speed of light or a unit of Earthly measure, and don’t even get me started on the gram.

So what does a foot fit, or a yard, or an inch?

Seems to me you can measure the speed of light or a unit of earthly measure with either system just fine.

For the average kid, the metric system is easier to grasp.

Funny how even American kids sell grams of pot, or coke etc. instead of 1/32 of an ounce.

98 posted on 04/20/2008 8:30:26 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: coloradan
a kilo is a unit of weight. I Kg = 2.2 lbs. (approx)

I don't go to the store and buy a mass of steak, I buy a kilo of steak. (or 500g if I want about a lb.)
I go to the lake and catch a mess of fish.

Oh and back to the title of the article:

The international kilogram conundrum[Weights have mysteriously fluctuated]

Not masses have fluctuated.

99 posted on 04/20/2008 8:37:42 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: coloradan
"The pounds is a unit of force, but the kilogram isn't.

LoL! Ok if you say so....

But I tell you, if I drop a kilo of iron on your toe, you're going to feel it, and wish it were only a pound.

(you are a very confused person)

100 posted on 04/20/2008 8:40:41 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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