FLDS Prophet's Nephew Testifies Against Polygamists...

ABC News ^ | 4/18/08 | Rick Ross

[the808bass]

IBTAFPACA

(in before the apologists for polygamy and child abuse)

[yldstrk]

Laws trump religion. And that goes for RLDS and Muslims. And anybody else that thinks otherwise too.

[basil]

It certainly puts a different perspective on the whole thing, doesn’t it?

[garjog]

What if Warren Jeffs, the self-proclaimed prophet of the polygamist sect, turned out to be the spiritual mentor for John McCain for the last 20 years?

[Sigane66]

I hope the young man is protected when he goes to Texas to testify against those sexual perverts. Don't these women read the Bible? I thought I saw some in the latest videos. God will make it clear to them if they only pray and ask Him to enlighten them. Someone should encourage them for the sake of those innocent children. God help them.

[TWohlford]

So, ipso facto, slam dunk, sher thing, because the group had one child molester as its spiritual leader, the entire town’s children should be removed from their parents?

No doubt there were some nasty, evil things that happened in that community. No doubt some things happened that are wrong by modern standards, but were right 100 years ago when the group codified its rules.

However, unless the Texas prosecutors can prove that Child A was molested or beaten by Parent A, I don’t see how the State can even protect itself from the coming lawsuits. Certainly the children will paint a sympathetic picture when they talk about being removed at gunpoint, with armor-suited police, dogs, etc herding them into buses, to be taken for an examination of their genitals and anus w/o the comforting presence of anyone that they knew.

I grew up with the Amish. In their ranks, they had some people whose behavior was, well, reprehensible. And, their values are definitely different than most people. This, however, does NOT mean that all Amish are bad — far from it — and that the State should remove their kids.

[ghost of nixon]

Your way off base - if you take a narrow legal view, yes this case is problematic. However, polygamy is illegal. Statutory rape is illegal - that has been the practice at least since Warren Jeffs has run this group. It really come down to whether Texas has the courage to stand their ground and put a stop to this group. Here in Utah, authorities took exactly your view, and the group grew to over 10,000 people. Believe me when I tell you, no state wants to go down the road Utah has taken.

[prayforpeaceofJerusalem]

“AFPACA”

Good tag.

[prayforpeaceofJerusalem]

Yoy are just an “AFPACA”

[prayforpeaceofJerusalem]

Oops: “You”

[TWohlford]

“Your way off base - if you take a narrow legal view, yes this case is problematic. However, polygamy is illegal. Statutory rape is illegal - that has been the practice at least since Warren Jeffs has run this group. It really come down to whether Texas has the courage to stand their ground and put a stop to this group. Here in Utah, authorities took exactly your view, and the group grew to over 10,000 people. Believe me when I tell you, no state wants to go down the road Utah has taken.”

As I recall the US Constitution (and using it in a literal sense), just because you are part of a group does NOT mean that you are guilty of the sins committed by members of the group.

It is not illegal to be part of this group. It is not illegal to worship God via the LDS religion. Granted, poligamy is illegal, but hasn’t been enforced, by your own admission, over the past decades (in the same vein, adultery is illegal in many places).

What I’m saying is that there MIGHT be possibly one good, healthy family in that group. Those parents have seen their kids rounded up by armed thugs - akin to Elián González — and taken from them. Mind you, there is NO evidence that those parents did anything wrong, or were contemplating any wrongdoing, or that the children were in any danger. Those children were then subjected, in the company of complete strangers, to anal and genital examinations and asked the worst kind of questions about their parents.

What we have it the latest McMartin Preschool hysteria. Remember when we all cried that those who did the crime should be shot, or worse? Well, as it turns out, NOTHING happened, there was NO crime, but honest people went to jail, were ruined in every way, and will never regain their dignity.

What I know — affirmed by that “expert” in Texas during the past 3 days — is that the damage done to those children in this process is probably greater than any damage that is being prevented. And, their parents will no doubt be ruined, much like those accused in the mass child rape cases of the 1980’s and 1990’s.

Finally, some here owe me an apology. I stand up for due process and the US Constitution. I’ve been on the board of directors for a child abuse prevention clinic, have helped abused people move from their abuser, and was the foreman on a child abuse trial (we convicted). My fides on this matter are beyond reproach.

[DannyTN]

"Laws trump religion."

As it should when one's religious practices are violating others rights. Otherwise...

• Satanists could offer human sacrifices.
• Fundie Mormons could sexually abuse their grandkids.
• Atheists could slaughter human embryos in search of profits.

[DannyTN]

You’ve been nominated for the most ridiculous and unlikely hypothetical question award.

[TWohlford]

“Laws trump religion.”

And when due process shows a crime was committed, then the full penalty of the law comes to bear.

One does not lose their Constitutional rights just because they belong to the FLDS.

[Gondring]

Finally, some here owe me an apology. I stand up for due process and the US Constitution.

I wouldn't hold my breath. FR has been overrun by Clintonista who use the old "if you disagree with me, you must not care" and "it's for the chillrun" tactics, along with helpings of name-calling (such as "AFPACA") if you're not blindly supportive of their power grab.

It's a flashback to the 1990s, where the pro-Constitution American-loving conservatives are portrayed as the evil and uncaring ones by rabid lefties who don't care about the long-term consequences.

I’ve been on the board of directors for a child abuse prevention clinic, have helped abused people move from their abuser, and was the foreman on a child abuse trial (we convicted). My fides on this matter are beyond reproach.

It doesn't matter that I used to volunteer with a program that helped care for abused and neglected children while their parents were evaluated and taught proper care techniques. The Clintonistas here will just claim that I somwhow was supporting abuse because I volunteered with the children, or some other nonsense. Reality has no meaning to those who just kneejerk and scream "AFPACA" at people who don't fit their plans.

[Marie2]

While serving on that board, was it your experience that the abused children stayed with the abusive parent?

Or were they removed?

Or did they wait for a full trial and then remove the kid only if the parent(s) were convicted?

What do you think should happen?

[Gondring]

I didn't serve on a board...I helped care for the children while the parents were being evaluated and trained. Actually, the children were evaluated and cleaned up, too, but I wasn't part of that...I just taught the children, helped clean up the place, carried materials into the building, etc., while the professionals did the official things.

While serving on that board, was it your experience that the abused children stayed with the abusive parent?

The parents went elsewhere in the building while the children were left in the nursery.Or were they removed?

No...the children were left voluntarily, not forcibly. We did our best to make the nursery environment non-threateneing so the parents would feel comfortable leaving their children there.

Or did they wait for a full trial and then remove the kid only if the parent(s) were convicted?

I'm unaware of the full legal procedure, but they were never involuntarily separated in the cases I saw.

What do you think should happen?

I imagine that with a court order based on probably cause of a crime being committed by that parent, there might separation, with the parent being charged with a crime. It doesn't seem like there would ever have been a blanket order to remove all the children in the program from their parents based on the possibility of the boyfriends committing a crime (not many "husbands" in the program!) and no charges filed against the mothers.

[Choose Ye This Day]

I wish Warren Jeffs would hurry up and die in prison, so he can begin roasting in hell.

I’m sorry if that offends anyone’s delicate sensibilities.

[Choose Ye This Day]

It is not illegal to worship God via the LDS religion.

Well, that's such a relief. As an active LDS church member, I can safely go to my Church meetings tomorrow without fear of imprisonment.

I believe, in the context of your comments, you were referring to the FLDS religion. There is a difference. A significant difference in beliefs and practices. It may have been a typo on your part, but a clear distinction must be made.