Posted on 04/18/2008 7:34:25 PM PDT by Chief Engineer
C.'s Attorney General Wally Oppal has confirmed that some of the 416 children taken by authorities from a polygamist compound in Texas, are Canadian.
Oppal said officials in Ottawa gave him the news.
His statement came after Angie Voss, of Texas child protection services, said during a custody hearing in Texas on Friday that some of the children we from Canada, though she gave no details about how many were there, or how old they were.
The large group of children were seized from the compound after allegations of sexual and physical abuse were made, including forcing underage girls to marry men several times their age.
Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.
Oppal said officials gave him the news because there is also a polygamist compound in Bountiful, B.C., and members have close ties to their American counterparts.
"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
"It sort of adds another dimension to the problem here. That is, that people move in and out of these communities and it's sometimes difficult to find out who's where and what."
Oppal said the call from Ottawa was "giving us a heads up because they know that we're involved in that same issue here."
Unprecedented ruling
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
The court heard that at least five of the children who are under 18 already have had children of their own.
The children were taken from an Eldorado, Texas compound which belonged to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.
Voss said that the children are taught "...no age too young to be married."
She added that there is "...a culture of young girls being pregnant by older men."
The court has heard that the girls would have little ability to say no.
Psychiatrist Bruce Perry said a child raised to be absolutely obedient would have, "the independent thinking of a much younger child."
Polygamous marriage is a central tenet for members of the religious sect.
The sect is led by their prophet, Warren Jeffs. Formerly on the FBI's most wanted list, the leader has been convicted and jailed for being an accomplice of rape by forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.
He is now awaiting trial on other charges in Arizona. The sect came to West Texas in 2003, moving from its traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.
Authorities raided the 1,700 acre raid after a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl on the ranch. The girls said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.
The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.
Thank goodness we have the state and it’s fantastic foster care system to raise the children of bizzaro American parents. Especially those parents with religious beliefs which conflict with secular mainstream beliefs.
Bountiful. BC.
Warren Jeffs is said to have been a visitor. I have from Wiki that the commune has about 1000 persons. Only six males are said to be the "fathers" originally.
The British Columbia provincial government has been considering their options for some months. Their own political safety and well being, is of course paramount. All is not well, if one deals with hearsay. Nasty stories leaking out from Bountiful. Yet they are media savvy and called press conferences. The spokesmen certainly gave a good account of themselves, as I witnessed it on television.
Yes, the Canadian press did do as much as they could. Tight lipped persons scurried away when the press tried to interview the average inhabitant.
Yep, here it is- the Canadian connection.
wonder how much more there is to this story
If you consider this cult to be a “religion’ then so is Jim Jones or the Muslim religion with Sharia law and the “Taliban “ religion.
why don’t we just let those who have a different religion kill their daughters if they hold hands with a man in public? its thier religion you know.
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
This followed by a lot of negative, and very little if any real evidence. I’m sure the children are by now properly traumatized. Except I don’t have any proof of that either.
By the time the religious beliefs cross the line into child abuse, that’s where the state can legitimately move in.
We may differ on what constitutes child abuse.
For myself, a 14 year old getting pushed into a marriage with a 40 year old qualifies.
What would you do if you were in charge of this situation?
I’d allow the children to stay with their mothers, but, I’d have to figure out who the mothers are first. Hence, the DNA tests. Then, they stay with their moms and only their moms. Not all the other “moms.”
I’d disallow any contact with the alleged child rapists until I had a full, proper investigation conducted.
I’d investigate and prosecute for welfare fraud.
I’d have a full, proper trial for any women against whom there was evidence that she’d abused or pimped out her girls, or thrown out her boys.
And I’d have a full, proper trial for any man against whom there was evidence that they were having sex with, or shall I say raping, underage girls.
However, to accomplish this, I’d have to start with the DNA, and I’d have to have the kids in some sort of protective custody for a while. With their moms, ok, but without the ability to be taken across the border or “visited” by their “uncles.”
What is your alternative?
Timeline: The History of Mormon Polygamy in the U.S. and Canada
I’d allow the children to stay with their mothers, but, I’d have to figure out who the mothers are first.
I agree with the first part, I do not think the last part is legal.
The State rushed in without giving careful consideration to how much they were biting off.
Other governments have tried and come up very short.
I am not so sure I would have started with a raid. A simple investigation would have revealed the fact that the alleged perp was in the State of AZ and had not left that state for some time as he was on probation for some type of sex crime.
The above info would have placed a big question mark on the validity of a raid, and the disruption of family life for the women and children.
If it had been me in charge I might have been able to justify going after the males in the compound, but going after the unaccused women and children does not sit well with me.
All of the trouble, separation, heartache, lies with those who remain basically under arrest or suspicion, and have not been arrested or charged with a crime.
There is probably much more to it, and I’m not in charge so what I say doesn’t mean much in the overall scheme of things.
“why don’t we just let those who have a different religion kill their daughters if they hold hands with a man in public? its thier religion you know.”
Meanwhile, the religion of state is gay and lesbian. In secular public schools these children will be taught homosexual behavior is not only an acceptable and protected behavior today, but is also considered by many to be in vogue. They will learn single parents and same sex parents are totally legitimate and are no different from other parents who are traditional moms and dads.
The good news is soon these children and their parents will be indoctrinated into secular mainstream america to learn what is proper. One thing for sure, they will get some good state approved drugs to aid them in their transition.
according to the laws, if a hotline call is placed, child protective services MUST investigate, it differs by state, but i believe it must be investigated within 24/48 hours of recieving the hotline call. the investigation must include a home visit. if, in the course of the investigation, the investigator happens to observe any other indications of abuse, even if they are unrelated to the original hotline call, the investigator is required by law to make a report of it or lose her job-the mandated reporter law. by the time of the raid, the phone call was probably no longer the basis for the removal of the children. in sex abuse cases, usually the child doesn’t go home with mom when mom has in effect been pimping out said child.
Illegal aliens!
Well, the mothers won’t even identify their children! The kids don’t know who their bio moms are.
Which mom would you leave them with? We don’t even know if all these kids moms even LIVE in TX. Some of the moms might be in Colorado City.
It looks as if some of the kids parents live in Canada.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003819/posts
“For myself, a 14 year old getting pushed into a marriage with a 40 year old qualifies.”
I find the behavior disgusting. Just not yet convinced it’s true. We have allegations of child abuse but no evidence has been provided. By LAW, in order to proceed, the state is required to have a complaintant. In this case, the state is the only complaintant at this juncture.
Since the complaintant the state replied upon turns out to be a fraud. By proceeding, the state has set a new precedent by ignoring the LAW.
You are one of those law and order folks aren’t you? The law is the law and if you don’t like it seek to change it right?
So it’s okay with you when a judge ignores the LAW too so long as it fits within the parameters of your guiding light right?
Pebcak heard the leader of Bountiful say he was flying over the Eldorado ranch looking for his daughter. (Larry King show)
Have you read the affidavits and search warrants?
Not sure where you get “the complaintant the state replied upon turns out to be a fraud” as a fact. That’s far from proven.
>>By proceeding, the state has set a new precedent by ignoring the LAW.
No, the state had probable cause to look into it, what they found was taken to a judge twice for search warrants which turned up other evidence and interviews and examinations of the children turned up further evidence that was taken to a judge to request removing the children from a dangerous situation.
The judge approved this according to the evidence presented in accordance with the law.
Links to all of this abound, I believe if you’ll read it, you will agree with law enforcement and the judicial system on this one.
Actually, if you’ll read the documents including the testimony of a informant from FLDS and what was known publicly for years from books interviews, independent observers, former members, etc - I think a better case can be made that law enforcement were negligent in not acting sooner.
From your link ... wow are just mere breeding animals:
Debbie Palmer: Well like I mean in a good size dairy, you have to know when a cows going to come around so she can be serviced properly by the bull, or you don’t have calves and you don’t have your cows freshened properly and if you’ve got very many wives in your family then somebody needs to keep track of that...one of the really horrific things about some of the inbreeding that has happened in the polygamist communities is that most of the men that have been in positions of control that have instigated these marriages are men that have studied breeding stock in animals .”
Hana Gartner: THIS IS ALL BASED ON ANIMAL HUSBANDRY?
Debbie Palmer: Yes it is.
Check out the trailer for “Banking on Heaven”. One scene that struck me showed the men standing around, overseeing the women toiling in the field. These women are treated likes slaves.
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