Posted on 04/18/2008 6:30:59 PM PDT by granite
SAN ANGELO, Texas -- More than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing, a judge ruled Friday. State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children be kept by the state. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks. She ordered that all children and parents be given genetic testing. Child welfare officials have said they've had difficulty determining how the children and parents are related because of evasive or changing answers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
“I’m not saying let the kids be abused. But I am saying you need to prove a child is abused or someone is abusing children before you can just take kids away.”
In this case there is credible evidence that child abuse did occur. The state is proceeding in the only way it possibly can. You put those children back with their mothers and you will have zero chance of getting any evidence from them.
You have got to get past the ‘this could happen to me’.
You have got to get past the ‘mothers just want their kids’.
Each and every one of those mothers must be considered co-conspirators in child abuse at this time.
You simply cannot let them have access to these children at this time and hope to have any chance of getting untainted evidence.
I still have issues with giving all the women a pass and I don’t really buy the untainted evidence. They would have to keep the separated from each other.
“I say put the pedophiles on death row or chop their testicles off and rape them with a plunger...but let’s make sure they are guilty first.”
Great! Now, just how do you propose going about getting the evidence? You have to consider the mothers as co-conspirators at this time. Do you still want to let them have unfettered access to their children? What do you think they will tell their children to say?
“Let’s not do a janet reno and just torch the whole lot of people just because they are in a “bad” place.”
There is absolutely no reason to compare this to Janet Reno and Branch Dividian. If anything, this is a show case on how JR should have treated the BD.
That’s really the only thing I’ve been arguing here. The state of Texas is just following standard investagatory procedures in segregating witnesses. In fact, if Texas were not following these procedures, any decent attorney would have all the testimony thrown out just by showing that witnesses had discussed their testimony prior to court. Doesn’t matter the content of the testimony. Just show that the witnesses shared testimony and it’s over. Done with. They’re out of there.
Granted, there is probably an attorney for each woman, an ad litem, and an attorney ad litem for each child. The shear logistics alone were problematic from the get go.
That said, it is not the norm to remove children without some sort of hearing even if it's temporary order, for each child/family.
I think if you do some reading here, you’ll have a better understanding of what the FLDS is about:
Click on “True Stories” at the top.
I think a lot of us are interested in the details, and I think if more people read up on this cult they would have a better understanding of the situation. I spent most of Friday afternoon reading about the FLDS. Yes the other polygamous mormons who are FLDS are in the same brainwashed boat. Yes the men are brainwashed too. Although I might say some of those in leadership are evil/nuts. I don’t know much about other polygamous cultures or arranged marriage cultures, but I think the FLDS is fairly unique in the brainwashing/cult aspect. I would venture to say that other cultures with these practices are demeaning to women.
yes but that is not a legal issue in and of itself
If you believe that state run foster care is a solution to the potential for sexual abuse of minors you are not paying attention.
This is not a criminal investigation. There has been no attempt to make a case for statutory rape. It is an attempt by a social services agency to remove hundreds of children from an unpopular religious community. It is selective and inconsistent with the agency's stance on sexual activity among minors among the general public.
If all of the children were removed from all of the homes in any community where sexual activity with minors could be expected there would be few children living with their parents.
This is a profound travesty of justice and ruinous of the lives of hundreds of children.
AGAIN - If there is evidence of criminal activity let the perpetrators be prosecuted. Do not punish children for the potential activities of their elders.
As to the reaction to the values of those living in this commune, beware, lest your values come under the scrutiny of government officials.
Thanks to both of you for your reasonable discussion.
I think you will find most of us calling for a watchful eye on the government truly detest what is going on with this cult. That said, I do not believe we should dismiss jurisprudence to deal with them.
Punish the children, fool punishing children is having fifty year old men use them as sex toys and having them reared by enabling perverts so they can trade them off for more sex toys.
And you are a fool.
cool it agent org, your government God is stronger than ever. Just because people don’t believe your wild arse assertions, rumors, and hyperbole without facts and proof and charges and indictments doesn’t give you the right to act like a fool towards others.
You just proved you don’t know how to read!
What? Because I ain’t buying your hysteria? And those that don’t follow your wreckless train of thought are fools? LMAO.
Nazi-like judge to separate babies from moms! Conducting DNA tests, giving babies away like cattle!
(associated press) Adult mothers who have been allowed to stay with their young children since they were taken from a polygamous sect will be ......
I double it, most of the cult supporters here don't know which end it is on.
And you are a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It was the fools in Germany who resisted Hitler and the brown shirts. Most were killed. Those who tried to accomodate thought themselves clever. They were the culprits.
Calling me a fool in the context of this thread is a tribute to my absolute commitment to personal liberty.
The state has no idea of the deep terror it is visiting upon these children. They are utterly unequipped to deal with the consequences of their terrorism.
Your inflammatory rhetoric is symptomatic of the problem. Spewing vicious contempt will not result in justice and certainly will not save the children.
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