Posted on 04/17/2008 10:12:04 PM PDT by Howdy there
The headline stands. She MAY be involved.
OK...just keep your list of those that aren’t “open minded.” AKA, folks that don’t see it your way.
So, they have been working on this investigation for four years, but the call complaining about Barlow just came in recently? That makes the call even more suspicious.
CPS takes kids without charges being filed all the time, as long as there's evidence that the home is dangerous for the child. Unless there's a vast and very well-run conspiracy, this compound qualifies.
The only way to tell exactly would be to examine the growth statistics of the cult. Obviously there is a growth rate. Unless the men are somehow sweeping women up off the streets of America.
Some of these guys have a dozen wives. That’s a statistic proving that there is something happening to the male offspring. Their elders councils (the dukes and lords) probably do expand in number with population and the sons of the sons of these scum would be extra baggage as they breed very young and a fifty year old marrying a 14 year old girl would be in fact preying on his generations grand child.
I wonder if its easier for them to rape each other’s grand children than children?
I’m sorry they are NOT citizens like you and me. Every adult in that compound is guilty of child rape and enslavement. They ALL conspire in their sick evil practices. I suppose the women could be counted as victims but at some point in their adult lives they choose to keep doing to others what was done to them.
How about the women that stand by as their young sons are run off .... or worse.
If the men were going out and robbing banks and the women were staying home spending the money and covering their husbands tracks they would be guilty of aiding and abetting.
Well, what’s the difference here? Except that the crime is a thousand times worse.
Yes, but you are presuming guilt on the part of the government employees without any evidence. In other words, your charges ar "trumped up."
The OP stands against you. The basis of the warrant, according to what we know, is derived from an informant who provided false information, from a falsified location, and furthermore, has a history of providing false information.
That strongly suggests that there was no due process as the enforcement agency is to verify the veracity of the claim before asking a judge for a warrant.
That is the evidence I speak from, and considering what is known to be true, it is a reasonable position to take.
The only difference between you and the people you are accusing is that you don't have the force of the legal system behind you.
LOL! that is a very big difference! The law is restricted from the convenience of speculation for a reason.
[Search warrants are not supposed to be issued on hearsay.]
Hearsay is when a person says that someone else told them about a crime. This was not the case. Like I said, if we're going to discuss legal matters, let's use the words for what they mean.
[...] 1 : rumor Main Entry: [...] 1: talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source Main Entry:
hearsay
2 : hearsay evidence
1rumor
2: a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event
4: a soft low indistinct sound : murmur
[Private property must not be breached without a damn good reason, and that reason must be proven with some semblance of evidence before the fact.]
So, it's your contention (still without evidence) that the police executed this warrant, found nothing wrong and trumped up charges against these people that will involve hard jail time? Does that really sound plausible to you?
No, that is not my contention. It is my contention that they obtained a warrant based upon an unverified tip, without regard to due process. They MUST account for the veracity of the information in order to obtain the warrant, else the warrant is invalid. What they may have found thereafter is beside the point.
Why are you putting so much energy into arguing a moot point?
Once child rape is exposed it doesn’t matter if the police had ZERO probable cause and actually invaded the Vatican itself. Give me a pregnant fifteen year old and I can put lots of people in jail for a long time. A “fruit of a poisonous tree” argument from some scumbag lawyer will go nowhere.
Really? Let's see, human, born in this country. Yep; they are citizens like you and me. Which means they deserve due process which they are being denied.
Every adult in that compound is guilty of child rape and enslavement.
And you know all of this how? Have you been undercover and watching them for the last few years or are you just going to go with what a discredited anonymous phone call said.
Yes there are child rapists in there. Yes they should die for that crime. The incredible injustice is that you and so many of your compatriots are allowing yourself to be completely ruled by emotion and all to ready to embrace police state tactics in order to rectify this.
There is a right way and a wrong way to go after these people, and so far this looks like something out of the KGB and Gastapo handbooks. CPS and police action without due process is police state action. Swiping 400 children at gunpoint with zero criminal arrests is a travesty of justice.
You make a really good point.
The law must be based on reality, else the state can manipulate their way into prosecuting and jailing anyone.
I hope they find (lawful) evidence to jail these pervert pedophiles, and then go after the ones in Utah and Arizona.
Ed
True. But, that’s not what happened there, at the FLDS compound.
I did not say that it did. My statement was in reply to Mr. Silverback's specific remark:
But I will say this and I will stand by it even if all these people are acquitted: Given the FLDS's recent past, believing them is at least as silly as believing a government agency at face value.
Thanks Ed. I know it seem like I’m fronting for some very unsavory characters. I just want the authorities to be cognizant of the law, and abide by it. If not in this case, then perhaps not in cases that involve people we do support. It’s important. I appreciate your response.
or may not. ;^)
How does that make sense, exactly?
This is why:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure
Once child rape is exposed it doesn’t matter if the police had ZERO probable cause and actually invaded the Vatican itself.
That doesn't make it right, and certainly does not make it moot.
1. Removal from a home is not arrest, and none of these girls were arrested.
2. The Hispanic girls you speak of are not held on a compund owned by a sect that has already been proven in court to be teaching that minor girls should be involved in arranged marriages.
Again, Eva, show me the "minor girls get forced to marry and sleep with adult males" doctrine in the teachings of the Native American Church or the churches of any of the Christian denominations that minister on reservations. Show me where someone on any of those reservations reported being held against their will and the police said, "It's OK if you Indians and Hispanics abuse your daughters; we're only stopping the FLDS."
An excellent post.
The state government had better have the goods or there should be hell to pay. It is not in keeping with the American way, except in the minds of Janet Reno, Bill Clinton, and the ATF that all are guilty until proven otherwise. Just burn them out and there won't be anyone to say otherwise. Then bring in some D6 Cat bulldozers, doze the evidence away, and say , "No harm, no foul."
If they have the evidence then deal with them as harshly as the law allows. But if this allegation rests on the report of a girl named Sarah who said that she thinks she is crazy, and if there is not evidence, then this has been a travesty.
The church doctrine is not on trial, that would be thought control. Many of the young Indians don’t know who their father is and don’t know where they are going to sleep at night because they are passed from one relative, an older sister one night, an aunt the next, and a cousin the night after, whoever is going to be home and has an empty bed or sofa. Things are getting better for some of the tribal people with the infusion of gambling money, but it is not shared equally and those who are getting rich move off the reservation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.