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To: AmericaUnited; irishtenor; Gamecock; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
If we don't have a free will to accept or reject God and His Son, the whole thing is MEANINGLESS!!!

Why? Did you make the rules? Did you create the world and everything therein?

Go back to the Bible and learn that no man can come to the Father who first hasn't been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. And that decision is ultimately God's call.

"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4

You have one serious mental block here. It IS possible for God to be all sovereign, omnipotent, all powerful, etc., etc., and yet still give man a free will to accept or reject Him. Only to you, is that somehow beyond God's ability.

No, that paradigm is ultimately jibberish. If man has the final say about his own salvation, then God spends time and eternity waiting for men to give Him a heads up so that He can save them. And that denies the very idea of who God is -- the sovereign Creator of all that exists.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" -- Isaiah 46:10

Greater minds than ours have pointed out the important fact that if men are responsible for their own salvation, then Christ really didn't save anyone on Calvary; He only made salvation possible.

Which is not what the Bible says. Hebrews 10 tells us that the one-time sacrifice for all the sins of the flock of the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" has been offered and accepted by God, marked "Paid-in-Full."

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." -- Hebrews 10:12-18

Romans 8 and 9 tell us that all men are fallen and none is capable of pleasing God unless and until God gives them a new heart and new ears and new eyes and a renewed mind in order for them to know their salvation has been won for them by Christ on the cross.

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

Ephesians 1 tells us that God has determined this, and not men, and did so from before the foundation of the world. We are saved by unmerited grace, and grace alone.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6

Most of us once thought exactly like you do. And then we understood better. All glory to God alone.

192 posted on 04/18/2008 6:01:13 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If man has the final say about his own salvation, then God spends time and eternity waiting for men to give Him a heads up so that He can save them.

Yes, only if God is JUST LIKE YOU, i.e. He doesn't know the future and has to wait to see what happens. No wonder you just don't get this...

193 posted on 04/18/2008 6:20:08 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; AmericaUnited; Gamecock; HarleyD; Forest Keeper

Well guys, it’s been fun, but I am a half hour away from flying off to Disneyworld. See ya at the end of the month. God bless all of you. Yes, even you AU :>)


195 posted on 04/18/2008 8:08:49 PM PDT by irishtenor (Check out my blog at http://boompa53.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; AmericaUnited; irishtenor; Gamecock; HarleyD
Greater minds than ours have pointed out the important fact that if men are responsible for their own salvation, then Christ really didn't save anyone on Calvary; He only made salvation possible.

AMEN, Dr. E.! That is the rub. A powerful God verses a weak, and especially IRRESPONSIBLE God (as the Warfield article you have posted before says). The born nature of men is to lust for power. It is therefore understandable that many faiths seek that power even in their relationship with God. As you have said many times, most of us used to think we were in control too.

239 posted on 04/22/2008 12:02:30 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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