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To: Manly Warrior
Yes, but what benefit will that provide beyond current info? The LEA will get a copy of your 4473, which required the seller to positviely ID the buyer with a valid picture ID and for the buyer to provide rather detailed personal info-SSAN, POB, DOB, description etc, so the video is only to do what-protect the seller, from what? Help LEAs, how?

One issue is identity theft. A lot of states are not that diligent about their state issued IDs. RealId will eventually improve that process, but it's a long way from being fully implemented.

Wal-Mart will also likely not be able to tell if the ID is stolen and used by someone else with a similar appearance or forged.

However, I suspect the biggest problem they are trying to address is problems with their own employees. Their employees aren't paid overly well, and they have high turnover (which is true of pretty much all employers in their market). If they find that a number of sales of guns that are later used in crimes are sold by the same employee, they might want to check and see video of the transactions to see if their employees are following the proper procedures, or if they are selling guns to people they know shouldn't be able to buy them.

Wal-Mart could possibly face huge civil liability if their employees are found to be intentionally helping illegally supply guns to those who can't legally possess them and they are used in crimes.

Will they ask for permission to tape the buyer?

They don't have to.

This is not the same as routine surveillance video on security cameras...

Actually it is.

...this is recording a personal transaction well beyond what is required by law.

Most retailers do that already. Mostly to catch employee theft. Most modern point of sale systems can be integrated with the security cameras so that you can search through the video and see when specific types of transactions have occurred. Price adjustments are usually what they most commonly take a look at.

The likely isn't much of an expansion of their current security system. They may be logging more information to be able to locate gun transactions specifically in the video and changing video archival procedures, but that's about it.

Who will control these tapes? The seller? Who gets them if not the seller? Who vettes the folks that watch them? I don’t think Wal-Mart does security clearances on the “associates” that will run this process or archive.

I'd be very surprised if Wal-Mart doesn't do background checks on it's security people. Probably more so that your average store that sells guns, and who's employees have access to their gun sale records.

Since when does a coalition of city administrators have the legal power to obtain such information?

I don't know what requirements there are on gun dealers to safeguard the privacy of customers. However, it seems to be pretty well settled law that you can be videotaped in a public place without your consent. They probably can't use your image for commercial use without your consent, but I doubt they are banned from voluntarily sharing that video with others.

Violations of several constitutionally protected rights in my mind.

I'm just kind of thinking this through as I go. What constitutional rights in particular are you thinking that this violates.

The thing that I suspect will trouble constitutionality arguments is that this appears to be a voluntary program by a private company, not the government. You'd have a hard time arguing a 4th amendment violation simply because you don't really have a expectation of privacy while shopping at Wal-Mart. However, complicating things further, the constitution protects you from the government violating your rights. This is a private company taking video on it's own property.

As for violating the 2nd amendment, if they can keep any record of the transaction, I don't see how adding video to that record makes it more of a violation. The video would just seem to add to the accuracy of the record of the transaction.

If you want more privacy in your transactions I think your only real solution is to buy from people you trust more.

25 posted on 04/15/2008 1:46:29 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: untrained skeptic
"I don't know what requirements there are on gun dealers to safeguard the privacy of customers."

FYI. In Florida, the Federal Form 4473 that the buyer fills out and the dealer completes is also the form used to initiate the required backgound check thru the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. The result of that background check is entered on the 4473.

It is a felony for a dealer or his agent to reveal the results of that background check to anyone other than the purchaser or a law enforcement officer investigating that specific transaction. Needless to say dealers (including Walmart) do not share that 4473 with anyone but the purchaser, LEOs in some cases and the BATFE.

33 posted on 04/15/2008 2:39:50 PM PDT by bruoz
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