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I know, I know, before the cries of burning food for fuel flare up, are there any non-edible crops that can provide the sugar needed, and also I see they are working to make it from cellulose which is basically weeds and trees and could even use tree waste products(wood chips, etc).

And know I am not kissing al gore's ring in hopin to get the US off OPEC oil.

1 posted on 04/13/2008 6:36:48 AM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane

Quick! Quick! Plow under all that corn and plant sugar beets.


2 posted on 04/13/2008 6:38:12 AM PDT by csmusaret (John McCain is the evil of three lessers)
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To: Dane

Although people already know how to turn corn into ethanol, I have discovered a truly remarkable way to turn beans into gas. It earns murmurs of attention, and it certainly turns heads! It’s worthy of the Goracle, too.


3 posted on 04/13/2008 6:40:52 AM PDT by coloradan (The US is becoming a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Dane
before the cries of burning food for fuel flare up, are there any non-edible crops that can provide the sugar needed, and also I see they are working to make it from cellulose which is basically weeds and trees and could even use tree waste products(wood chips, etc).

It really makes no difference if you are using non edible crops or parts of crops because you are either using land that would have been used for food crops or are depleting the soil by not plowing under the cellulose.

5 posted on 04/13/2008 6:47:18 AM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Dane

Oh great. The price of candy will make an Easter basket cost $500. lol

“Sorry kids, the Easter Bunny could only afford to leave you toys this year like Santa does. Now enjoy the lead poisoning.”


6 posted on 04/13/2008 6:47:46 AM PDT by KoRn (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: Dane
"I see they are working to make it from cellulose which is basically weeds..." Damn, I've been working on this new invention that runs on cellulose: Photobucket
7 posted on 04/13/2008 6:51:55 AM PDT by RouxStir (No Peeing Allowed in the Gene Pool.)
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To: Dane

All right! Let’s chop down the Rain Forest for my car.......

It’s a great source of cheap plant sugars.....


8 posted on 04/13/2008 6:54:51 AM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Dane

It would solve several problems if they could use the corn stalks and cobs (unedible) instead of the tasty seeds.


11 posted on 04/13/2008 7:00:05 AM PDT by reg45
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To: Dane
It is all funny until someone's eye gets poked out and then it is positively hysterical.

The same people who extoll the virtues of a hydrogen economy somehow forget the Hindenberg put an end to the Dirigible Economy.

Or as the computer people have said for decades- Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Best regards,

12 posted on 04/13/2008 7:01:30 AM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Dane

I think the biggest problem is the massive amounts of energy it takes to make and isolate sugar from it’s plant form. Then take all the additional energy it takes to convert that sugar to hydrogen fuel.

The laws of physics guarantee that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t.

And just over 50% of a barrel of oil goes to make fuel. Our entire civilization is dependent on oil for making food, roads, clothing, medical supplies, plastics, paints, and just basic materials used to produce hydrogen fuels.

We cannot expect to be oil independent for at least another century or so. But wishful thinking is just that.......


16 posted on 04/13/2008 7:12:46 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (Juan McCain....The lesser of Three Liberals.")
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To: Dane
Researchers have developed a "revolutionary" process for converting plant sugars into hydrogen, which they claim could be used to cheaply and efficiently run vehicles.

So let me get this straight. If you want to trash your cheating ex-boyfriend's soon-to-be new car you'll put gasoline in his sugar tank?

18 posted on 04/13/2008 7:16:12 AM PDT by RoadKingSE (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: Dane

There may be parts of the edible crops that provide alternative fuel sources for all we know. And I can’t stand the “putting fuel into our gas tanks” whines. Nothing but emotional heart string plucking.


22 posted on 04/13/2008 7:28:28 AM PDT by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))
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To: Dane

Fuel cells are at least 4 times more efficient than ICE. However as soon as you start trying to force a mobile vehicle to use hydrogen, you lose all the advantages.

We are only a few years from solid oxide fuel cells that will be motor vehicle appropriate. Then you can burn petroleum in a car with enough effiency to make us fuel self sufficient.

Money spent trying to cram hydrogen into a car or burning food for fuel is a waste.

As long as we are burning 6+ billion barrels of oil for transportation fuel, there is nothing but oil that can fill that need. Through effiency, if you can decrease that demand to 1.5 billion barrels then you are approaching levels where advanced biomass technology can meet. However, with a decreased demand of this level, petroleum will become to cheap for alternatives to compete.

Which leaves us with petroleum for the forseeable future.


29 posted on 04/13/2008 7:36:54 AM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: Dane
According to the researchers, the conversion process involves combining plant sugars, water and a cocktail of powerful enzymes to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide under mild reaction conditions.

Think on the practicle industrial application of this technology.

Starting out with a vat of crushed vegatible mater add you enzymes (or bacteria).

Evacuate the atmosphere from the tank.

Wait for the enzymes to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide to fill the void.

At this point how do you separate the hydrogen and carbon dioxide?

If you use the methods of industrial gas producers you are using refrigeration, cooling the gases until one of the gases changes to a liquid.

That is a huge expenditure of energy.

Other than a diffusion process which requires compressors (more use of energy) I know of no other method of separating gasses.

36 posted on 04/13/2008 7:48:00 AM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Dane

Bring it on.

I just ran through 7000# of corn to heat my house all winter for $420.


38 posted on 04/13/2008 7:53:21 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: Dane
Hydrogen autos are decades away and may never be practical. While hydrogen is a clean fuel, it will take a whole new infrastructure to deliver it to motorists. Even the technology of practically and safety storing hydrogen in a vehicle's fuel tank is so far elusive. We already have the means to transport, deliver and safely store hydrocarbon fuels like gasoline and with emerging technologies like hybrid gas/electric vehicles can provide transportation cheaply and cleanly. Instead of converting food into fuel, particularly a fuel that would require massive retooling of our entire transportation infrastructure, why not invest in turning waste products into hydrocarbon liquid fuels ..i.e. synthetic gasoline.
42 posted on 04/13/2008 8:07:32 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Dane

Actually Dane, if this panned out it would be revolutionary. The hydrogen/solar hype is a plain crock. The best way to transport hydrogen is as a hydrocarbon (i.e. gas, diesel, or yes cellulose).


43 posted on 04/13/2008 9:15:29 AM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: Dane

More burning of food for fuel.
Every idiot who comes up with another lame brain scheme like this costs us more in higher food prices.
I do not look forward to paying $5 for a bottle of pop.


45 posted on 04/13/2008 9:31:56 AM PDT by BuffaloJack
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To: Dane

HYDROGEN! The fuel that’s just 5-10 years away from any date in the future.


46 posted on 04/13/2008 11:49:13 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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