After all that raking me over the coals the main point was Critical Thinking was dismissed from this forum for it would mean being responsible for our words!IMHO, a repeating pattern is not on accident...
I have yet to see where anyone except possibly Resty has dismissed critical thinking. Critical thinking involves a pattern of logic where one is open to the belief that they might be wrong and to do so they employ certain methods to differentiate the truth from their biases.
In an attempt to do this, I have asked several questions (and I might point out that a question is not "bashing" or criticism) and have not received answers on ANY of them. But, I will post some of them again to see if any Mormons would like to address them:
1. If there is no Trinity, it that follows that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit MIGHT NOT always be of One Mind; should a division arise, Who would you believe? (And to forestall any attempts to turn this question around, this question CANNOT be asked of non-Mormons as our belief in the Trinity renders it a moot point.)
2. Why did the religion that Mormons claim the Israelites brought to America fail? What happened in the 5th Century A.D. that removed any evidence that it EVER existed?
3. What happened to the gold plates and decoding devices? How were they lost? Why did Smith place no importance on protecting them?
4. And finally (and I admit I have not asked this before), why are there "secret" Temple ceremonies? Why won't you say what happens there? NO other religion that considers itself to be in the Judeo-Christian traditition hides fundamental tenets of their faith until after a person becomes a member. (And don't get the bright idea to talk about the Jewish High Priest crawling on his belly into the Holy of Holies, there was a prohibition against all Jews but him doing this AND what was done was not a secret.)
Please, if you wish to partake in critical thinking as you claim, answer these questions.
U Asked:
1. If there is no Trinity, it that follows that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit MIGHT NOT always be of One Mind; should a division arise, Who would you believe? (And to forestall any attempts to turn this question around, this question CANNOT be asked of non-Mormons as our belief in the Trinity renders it a moot point.)
This is no more a possibility for us than it is for you, the son is a prefect model of subjugation to the will of his father.
John 5: 19, 30 If this is not so, then we are all already in trouble for the the Bible has lied.
Your question reminds me of the perennial favorite as answered by Isaac Asimov: Q "What would happen if an immovable object were confronted with an unstoppable force?" Asimov "A universe in which there exists such a thing as an irresistible force is, by definition, a universe which cannot also contain an immovable object. And a universe which contains an immovable object cannot, by definition, also contain an irresistible force. So the question is essentially meaningless: either the force is irresistible or the object is immovable, but not both."
You have succeeded in asking a meaningless question, Next?
U Asked:
2. Why did the religion that Mormons claim the Israelites brought to America fail? What happened in the 5th Century A.D. that removed any evidence that it EVER existed?
First, not all evidence has been removed, you may want to read up on archeology which supports the book of Mormon (there is a surprisingly large amount of it, if you want some links, just ask.) Second the religion fell into apostasy because of pride, a lack of faith, and because of the temptings of Satan. Next?
U Asked:
3. What happened to the gold plates and decoding devices? How were they lost? Why did Smith place no importance on protecting them?
This is actually 3 questions, I will answer A, B and C. A. The Gold plates were taken back by the angel of God who lent them to Joseph for translation, they were not "lost" God knows exactly where they are and when we are ready the rest of the plates will be translated (did you know that Joseph was only allowed to translate a portion?)
B. the Urim and Thummim are still used by the prophet of the church today. the plates were taken back by the angel entrusted with their keeping by God.
C. Joseph placed the highest priority on protecting them possible as extraordinary means were used to try to get them from him, however, he was true and faithful and returned them to the angel when requested that he do so.
U Asked:
4. And finally (and I admit I have not asked this before), why are there "secret" Temple ceremonies? Why won't you say what happens there? NO other religion that considers itself to be in the Judeo-Christian tradition hides fundamental tenets of their faith until after a person becomes a member. (And don't get the bright idea to talk about the Jewish High Priest crawling on his belly into the Holy of Holies, there was a prohibition against all Jews but him doing this AND what was done was not a secret.)
Again, this is not a single question, but several questions in one.
A. The ceremonies are not "Secret" they are sacred, there is vast a difference, nonmember are permitted to know what the ceremonies are for, not how they are performed. B. OK, we perform Baptisms for the dead by proxy, we perform confirmations and the ordination of priesthood by proxy, we perform a ceremony called the endowment by proxy, we seal couples and parents to children for all time and all eternity by proxy. we also perform all these ordinances on the living.
If you wonder about proxy work, all Christians by definition accept the principle of proxy work for the atonement was a work performed for us by proxy. Mormons believe that fulfilling the command to perform proxy work for our ancestors brings us closer to Jesus. C. There were indeed "sacred" ceremonies that were performed inside the temple, They were not recorded in the Bible, as ours are not recorded in the D&C, however, the masons for one trace their ceremonies back to secret observation of these ceremonies from the walls while they were working on the temple in Jerusalem. There are other records from the secular world which reference the Jews having sacred ceremonies which are not in the Bible. The loss of these ceremonies was part of the apostasy Mormonism is restoring that knowledge.
U Said Please, if you wish to partake in critical thinking as you claim, answer these questions
Now I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.
With this document from the Catholic Encyclopedia on-line entered into evidence,
The First Council of Nicaea
- Why did Constantine (a pagan) call the council to decide God's definition?
- Why was this pagan allowed to set the agenda for God's church?
- what happened to the dissenters
- Since revelations was written in AD 90, and we are told there can be no more revelation (Revelations 22:18-19), and the Council happened in 325 AD, how is this accepted as revelation, and further revelation rejected?
- If this is to become the central doctrine of the church which all Christians must accept, were those who believed before 325 AD no such Dogma (because it didn't exist) not Christian, including the disciples?
Oh, I've Got more and none of mine are impossible to answer questions, I am truly interested in hearing your reasoning...