You're kidding? That is the most pathetic, convuluted, stooopid setup I've ever seen. Who makes that thing anyhow?
Posted on 03/28/2008 12:28:59 PM PDT by neverdem
Inadequate handgun rules designed by Department of Homeland Security officials are to blame for last weekend's accidental discharge of a pistol by a commercial pilot during landing preparations, a pilots association said yesterday.
"The pilot has to take his gun off and lock it up before he leaves the cockpit, so he was trying to secure the gun in preparation for landing, while he was trying to fly the airplane, too," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. "In the process of doing that, the padlock that is required to be inserted into the holster pulled the trigger and caused the gun to discharge."
The unnamed US Airways pilot, who was landing at Charlotte/Douglas (N.C.) International Airport, has been placed on leave by the airline since the incident.
This was the first report of a pilot's gun being discharged on a plane.
APSA, an organization of pilots...
--snip--
"We complained to DHS two years ago that this was an unsafe rule," Mr. Mackett said.
Rather than carry the weapon on their person at all times, pilots must lock it up before opening the cockpit door, meaning pilots handle the gun as many as 10 times per flight, the association estimates.
Pilots who have completed training to become federal flight deck officers (FFDOs) and carry weapons must use a holster used primarily as a home child-safety lock. A padlock is inserted through the holster and trigger guard, but, if inserted backward, it can trigger the gun, pilots say.
"It's a completely unsafe system unless it's used in a static environment — in a bedroom with good light. But to try to balance a gun on your lap and padlock it while flying an airplane 300 miles an hour, sometimes in the dark, is not secure," Mr. Mackett said....
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
As an amateur holster-maker and firearms enthusiast, if I were going to put a padlock on a holster (and I wouldn't BTW), I'd put it up on the thumbbreak/retention strap. Putting the lock through the triggerguard is unnecessary and evidently dangerous. Let the leatherwork protect the trigger like the Good Lord and John Moses Browning intended.
I see no reason why a pilot who has put himself through the requires red tape and training can't keep a hot gun in the cockpit. Israeli-style draw may work for the IDF, but a round in the pipe is a good thing to have when you really, really need it.
Better idea - lockbox.
All these rules and regulations are going to bite us in the @55 unless SOMEONE just says ... "phuque U, @55hole" ... and just TAKES control.
(BTW ... TAKEing control is what THEY are doing.) And it is insidious by the WAY they are TAKEing.
You're kidding? That is the most pathetic, convuluted, stooopid setup I've ever seen. Who makes that thing anyhow?
What part of "don't apply a trigger lock to a loaded gun" does the DHS not understand.
Dellenger in his argument before the Supreme Court in the Heller case was claiming that there exists a trigger lock that can be applied to a loaded gun. Has anybody ever heard of such a thing?
This ridiculous arrangement looks like what was being described. And the negligent discharge was exactly what ought to be expected.
Most airliners have two pilots in the cockpit.
What was the other one doing while all this was going on?
The armed guy couldn't simply say to the other guy, 'Hey, can you take the controls whilst I lock up my pistol?'
Most airliners also have map lights in the cockpit so the pilots can read their maps at night.
Semi-autos require an added level of thought and caution when handling.
People forget that a round was chambered.
Added level of thought and caution? I hope I never see you on the range. Furthermore, your carry revolver is always empty?
Having spent a couple of years flying as an armed air courier on commercial air carriers in the 70’s, a fair portion of the time in the cockpit. I can tell you that the TSA rules are beyond stupid. The cockpit is indeed no place to be futzing with a trigger lock and a loaded handgun.
I have to agree with the articles below.
Articles courtesy of www.crimefilenews.com
“TSA Arrogance Threatens Safety Of Air Travelers-Classified Information
Paul Huebl
Friday, December 28, 2007
I’m about to expose “classified information” about some internal workings and policies of the Transportation Security Administration. This is being written with the hope that the Flight Deck Officer (FDO) program will be taken away from the TSA and placed where it belongs, under a real law enforcement agency such as the United States Marshall’s Office.
Classifying government information was intended as a way to safeguard vital information from falling into the hands of our enemies. The TSA seems to only classify information to cover up their own ineptitude, ignorance and incompetence.
As a certified law-enforcement firearms trainer I have more than a passing interest in this type of activity, laws and policies.
The FDOs are airline pilots who have been specially screened and trained so they can carry firearms in order to protect the cockpits of their aircraft. Under TSA rules the FDOs are forbidden to take any action outside of the cockpit to protect passengers and crew. Limiting the FDO’s control over their aircraft enables rather than restrict terrorist attacks. Our Pilots are under absolutely insane micromanaging and regulation while terrorists are free to do whatever is necessary to destroy and kill whatever they wish.
The bureaucrats and political hacks of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the newly formed TSA are not trained as law enforcement officers and are absolutely unqualified to regulate the quasi law-enforcement function of airline security. Despite the serious nature of aviation security these unqualified people have been given absolute control over security by our politicians.
The FAA and TSA bureaucrats have fought tooth & nail any arming of flight crews. They lost that battle but continue to impede the safety of Americans by their obstructionist antics. These schemes included making pilots lug around a 22 pound vault for their side arms. The idea was to make sure the pilots can’t have access to their weapons until they are locked in their cockpits. Only then are the pilots allowed to open the vaults in this very confined space.
The vault requirement was and is bizarre and unworkable. After much criticism the vault requirement was lifted in favor of yet another screwball idea. The padlocked FDO holster was born. That’s right a holster with a combination padlock on it! At this point I have to ask if it’s the right time for mandatory drug testing and psychological examinations of TSA officials.
None of the law enforcement firearms trainers I’ve talked to view this padlock holster as anything more that a hazard to all but terrorists trying to kill and injure Americans. These trainers are baffled to learn of the holster lock and unlock procedures that I won’t disclose here.
The TSA Air Marshalls and the federal law enforcement officers cleared to carry firearms on airliners are trained in the area of weapons retention. The pilots are capable of safely controlling multimillion dollar planes carrying hundreds of passengers, are they incapable of retaining their side arms?
We need to force the TSA and FAA to allow trained FDO’s the ability to carry their side arms in the tried and true manner law enforcement officers have been doing for a very long time. At the same time the obstacles that inhibit pilots from joining the FDO program have to be eliminated. Will we have to wait for yet another senseless tragedy before we fix a problem? One thing for sure, the TSA is the problem here.
Paul Huebl-Chicago, L.A. & Phoenix Licensed Private Detective-Former Chicago policeman-Investigative vlogcaster
Paul Huebl
Monday, March 24, 2008
CHARLOTTE, N.C.—It was only a matter of time before there’d be an accidental, non-negligent discharge of a Federal Flight Deck Officer’s weapon. Saturday a U.S. Airways pilot’s gun discharged on Flight 1536, which left Denver at approximately 6:45am and arrived in Charlotte at approximately 11:51am. The Airbus A319 plane landed safely and thankfully none of the flight’s 124 passengers or five crew members was injured
The insane procedures required by the TSA demands that our pilots to lock and then un-lock their .40 side arms was and is a solid recipe for disaster. Did the TSA deliberately create this bizarre and unconventional Rube Goldberg firearm retention system hoping for this result? The sordid history of the FAA and TSA’s total resistance to the concept of arming pilots to protect Americans is in itself a scandal.
Putting a gun into a holster and then threading a padlock through the trigger and trigger-guard is required every time the pilots enter or leave the cockpit. This kind of silliness has never been forced on any law enforcement or security officers anywhere in the world until now. Before this holster padlock procedure pilots with guns were forced to carry them around in a cumbersome 22 pound vault. The vault caused problems in the confined space of most cockpits.
FFDO pilots need to carry their side arms in conventional concealed holsters and there is no reason for the unnecessary handling of their firearms in the cockpits.
Paul Huebl-Chicago, L.A. & Phoenix Licensed Private Detective-Former Chicago policeman-Investigative vlogcaster”
My self-defense revolver is always loaded.
I wonder where all of the brain surgeons on the previous thread who swore that it HAD TO BE GLOCK are right about now?
Ahhh .... the sound of silence!
And the owner should not carry one.
This is what happens when we let dumbasses who’ve never used a gun write gun laws.
Yeah, he should just "hold it" for another five hours, if he needs to pee.
How’s about we carry a gun with grip safety or one with a heavy enough double action trigger to keep this from happening.
Some guns with light DA triggers are susceptible to this kind of discharges. Normally, before storage, those guns are pointed in a safe direction and unloaded before storage. Since there is no safe direction on an airplane, a different kind of weapon is in order.
A 1911 is the first gun to come to mind. Next would be pretty much any revolver. The DA pull and the extra safety on a Ruger P-series would be a good choice as well.
You see nothing wrong with these rules?
They seem designed to enable incidents like this.
Better solution. Fire the TSA/HS bureaucrat who came up with the rules. No second chance.
What is a "hi-power?"
Are you referring to a Browning Hi-Power?
.
.
Ooops, ammo magazines...
Nothing faulty about the rule that says 'keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire'.
Bureaucrats will never get the message of commonsense re firearms.
Why? Isn't it dangerous? (sarcasm) ... Just as you said a semi-automatic pistol is dangerous if a round is in the chamber.
And, if you have an older, single action revolver without a transfer bar, all chambers loaded, with a live round under the hammer, a revolver drop to the hammer could cause it to fire.
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