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To: jimmyray
First, I have not taken the position of defending the whole of Origen’s work - although I could think of far worse theologians to defend.

Second, to invoke Sensus Plenior to impugn a reading of the scripture is to impugn a method of interpretation that Paul was well schooled in himself, being a scriptural scholar.

It has always been understood that the scripture as a whole, and the Torah in particular, is written on four levels, Pshat, Remez, Drush and Sod, ranging from the literal to the esoteric. Sod, in fact, refers to the “mystery” of scripture, that being personal and meditative revelation.

Your concept of and the word for “Paradise” is, in fact, based on an understanding of these four levels. (PRDS = “Pardes” = “orchard” = Gan Aiden)

You are instead limiting yourself to understanding only the first and most superficial level, the literal story, told through the dark glass of multiple translations and composition by committee.

169 posted on 03/27/2008 8:42:00 PM PDT by shibumi (".....panta en pasin....." - Origen)
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To: shibumi
You are instead limiting yourself to understanding only the first and most superficial level, the literal story, told through the dark glass of multiple translations and composition by committee.

And you are limiting yourself from seeing the plain meaning by trying to determine the author's intentions, instead of what he recorded. In addition, I reject the "PRDS" school of thought just as I reject the "JEDP" theory on torah authorship.

To suggest that the New Testament is the result of "multiple translations" and "Composition by commitee" suggests a lack of research into historical manuscript evidence for the Greek text we have today. I would also suggest that if we can't follow Sensus Plenior, then no one can arrive at an understanding of truth, for the sords don't mean what they say, and our most basic forms of communication - from thoughts to words to sentences to thoughts - is meaningless.

I also follow the motto "A Text taken out of Context is a Pretext". A simple, clean, literal hermeneutic requires literal reading within the context of the immediate text, a s well as the entirety of the book. This then has to be compared to other passeges on the same topic, to arrive at a sound doctrine. However, if we each allegorize and spiritualize by our own standards and imaginations, truth cannot exist in a knowable context. Your line of thinking leads to gnosticism (secret knowledge), a heresy fought ferociously by John in his 1st epistle, chapter 4, as well as by Paul in Galatians 1.

170 posted on 03/27/2008 9:04:41 PM PDT by jimmyray
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