Posted on 03/27/2008 1:10:00 PM PDT by yankeedame
Solid advice by yourself here. I spent many a time musing on the stories. I regretted that I was too late to tell my little story. This was of the flying bomb that myself and friend saw one Sunday afternoon. One poor, innocent lady killed in a row of houses. Northwood, Middlesex. I had a chuckle for about five people had already told the story.
A sobering thought though, I will maybe wish I had not brought it up. The first British civilian killed on the mainland was in May 1940. (No one will believe this). The odds will get you, my generation will tell you this: "They started it on us and then we did it to them".
No way, the first casualties were on Wilhelmshaven, September 1939. Four civilians died, though almost certainly unintentional. The RAF were bombing the harbour. One of the civilians was an Englishwoman, married to a German.
The BBC rejoice today in the propaganda war. I am not to be the judge, just an onlooker.
“Wasn’t Bath a known target, through Enigma, but Churchhill stopped
any opposing forces from challenging the Luftwaffe raid?”
Just speaking for myself...
the one city that comes up under that scenario of an English
city “sacrificed” to make sure the Germans didn’t realized the
Enigma system had been cracked seems to be Coventry.
But for all I know Bath and/or other cities were similarly
left exposed in this game of wits between the Germans and the Brits.
I’m sort of suprised that the Wikipedia links on Conventry and “Enigma”
don’t talk more about this connection between the suffering city
and the code-cracking triumph of the Allies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine
Myself, I got to visit Bath and Bristol in the late 1990s during a
business trip.
Both are historic cities to visit (esp. Bath for the Roman remains
and The Circle and The Crescent complexes).
I did note both cities still seem to be a bit “worn”...as old cities
and ones that took hits in WWII.
But even as an amateur tourist, I’d say they should not be missed when
someone takes a Grand Tour of the UK.
Your comment noted. One of the kindliest Americans was Ronaldus Magnus, the chances are some Freepers will listen. I remember the D Day landings as a kid. Old WW1 veterans tried to tell all and sundry THEIR little story. Some joked without meaning any harm about the old boys. (Not so old at that). Not many listened. I did.
For it is the wont of old men to have someone listen. Maybe someone out there will realise this and listen to a veteran. I find in Michigan when I visit, persons like to listen to a veteran. I always do.
Yes, you are right. A bit of a screed. Once as a kid, I heard an old man say he had marched with Lord Roberts- From Kabul to Kandahar. My regret is that he got off a bus and vanished. History up front.
A belated welcome to the club.
Wever was a major proponent of strategic bombing. If he hadn’t died in 1935, the Luftwaffe would have looked very different [and been much more balanced] in 1939.
Every major power had NCOs as pilots EXCEPT the U.S.A.
My understanding of the Iron Cross 2nd class is that it was roughly equivalent to the Bronze Star with “V” and the Iron Cross 1st class was the rough equivalent of the Silver Star and DSC combined.
When you consider the huge infantry arm of the German Heer, (400 divisions) the scale and ferocity of the fighting they experienced on all fronts (particularly on the eastern front) you would expect that many awards for heroism would be meted out.
So despite their ubiquity, such awards as this guy got ain’t too shabby.
Whether Wever lived or not, the German aircraft industry was not capable of producing an aircraft that was genuinely strategic until new engines could be developed.
In any case, the Spanish civil war discredited Douhet’s theories of air warfare but showed the devestating impact that tactical and ground support aircraft could have, and this, as well as Germany’s strategic situation of being surrounded on all sides by potential enemies, ensured that Nazi Germany’s focus was on tactical aircraft rather than strategic bombers....
That does not say that the Germans would have fielded a long range bomber capable of carrying a Lancaster sized bomb load. But they could have fielded one. One type that was tested was never developed because Hitler and Goering demanded they put dive brakes on it, and the wings couldn't take the stress.
As for the tactical nature of the Luftwaffe, what they had fit the role, AND allowed the Germans to field the largest Air Force in the West, QUICKLY. And the Luftwaffe, as that large air force, was a potent psychological weapon in Hitler's political arsenal from the Rhineland through Memel.
As for Douhet’s theories, Spain proved bombers needed escorts, air power alone could not win a war [a precept airmen the world over have refused to accept ever since], but not that strategic bombing was not an important part of a military strategy. If it had, the 8th Air Force wouldn't have existed in the form it did.
The reason airman refused to accept that strategic bombing did not work was because they did not like the idea of their service being the handmaiden of the army.
Strategic bombing was a flawed doctrine in the 1930s. Aircraft capable of making an independent strategic impact did not exist and did not exist until the middle of the war. The Luftwaffe learned that planes employed in the tactical role to aid the blitzkrieg on the ground were the most effective use of resources.
Given Hitler’s penchent for huge prestige projects, why do you reckon even he seemed uninterested in fielding a huge aircraft like the Lancaster or the B-29 capable of massive bombloads?
Walter Wever was killed on take off after some kind of conference, in a hurry he had forgotten to remove the lock boards from his control surfaces, in an Arado as I remember?
Strategic bombing just never seemed to develop for the Germans and then it was too late and even fighter production
couldn’t keep up with allied attacks not to mention being hampered by hamhanded ideas from Hitler.
The one medium range bomber they had they tried to develop into a dive bomber but it couldn’t take the strain. That and Hitlers insistance on the Me-262 as an attack bomber instead of a pure fighter.
Coventry you mean.
Churchill is said to have wept after making the decision, knowing it was right but would cost innocent lives...
“Coventry you mean.”
Yeah, I acknowledged this about 25 posts ago. You’re the 5th person who hasn’t read through the thread to tell me this.
I’m waiting for 5 more people to correct me without reading the posts of the other 9 people.
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