Posted on 03/25/2008 4:36:31 AM PDT by Renfield
March 23, 2008: A year ago, the U.S. Army was only getting about a third of its requests for Predator missions filled. The surge campaign was under way, and the new Secretary of Defense got involved with the growing number of complaints from army officers about the Predator shortage. The air force had about a hundred Predators, but only a dozen were in Iraq. Questions were asked.
The air force said it did not have enough Predators, and that there was also a shortage of Predator operators. A typical Predator crew consists of an pilot and a sensor operator. Because the Predator stays in the air for so long, more than one crew is often used for each sortie. Crew shortages sometimes result in Predators coming down before their fuel is used up. The air force insists that existing pilots (of manned aircraft) be trained as Predator operators. The army uses NCOs trained specifically for UAV operation. The army has no operator shortage.
Ever since World War II, there's been a controversy over whether all pilots (most of whom are highly trained warriors, not leaders, which is what officers are supposed to be) must be officers. At the start of World War II, the army air force (there was no separate air force yet) had enlisted pilots, as did the navy. These men were NCOs ("flying sergeants") selected for their flying potential and trained to be pilots. Not leaders of pilots, but professional pilots of fighters, bombers and whatnot. Officers trained as pilots would also fly, but in addition they would provide the leadership for the sergeant pilots in the air and on the ground. As the Army Air Corps changed into the mighty Army Air Force (with 2.4 million personnel, and 80,000 aircraft, at its peak), its capable and persuasive commander (General Hap Arnold), insisted that all pilots be officers. Actually, he wanted them all to be college graduates as well, until it was pointed out that the pool of college graduates was too small to provide the 200,000 pilots the Army Air Force eventually trained. But Arnold forced the issue on only officers being pilots, and the navy had to go along to remain competitive in recruiting.
Because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the army has also increased UAV operator training, and actually has far more UAVs than the air force. But most of the army UAVs are micro (under ten pounds) models, used by combat units (companies and battalion size units). These UAVs are designed to be very simple to use, requiring little formal training. Brigades and divisions use larger, but smaller than Predator, models. Most army UAV operators are not, like air force ones, pilots.
The Secretary of Defense ordered the air force to get more Predators to Iraq, and there are about two dozen there now. To deal with the UAV operator shortage, the air force has been recalling Predator pilots who have returned to their regular flying jobs. Until recently, being a Predator operator was a temporary (three year) assignment. Now, the air force is making it a career option, but it will take several years before they have enough career UAV pilots. The army complains that the air force is not operating like there's a war on, while the army is. While the air force complains that their UAV operators are working twelve hour shifts, six days a week, the army points out that the Predator operators are stationed in the U.S. (and control the UAVs via a satellite link). Air force personnel in Iraq (ground crews for the Predators) serve six month tours. Meanwhile, soldiers serve 15 month tours in Iraq, work 12 hour shifts, and get shot at a lot.
The army is buying a smaller version of the Predator (the Warrior) [PHOTO] and will be using NCOs and warrant officers as operators. The army is taking advantage of the fact that a UAV operator can become proficient practicing with the kind of flight simulator software you can buy in a game store. The air force does not agree with this approach, and fears unfavorable comparisons to their more complex and expensive approach to obtaining UAV operators. A lot of the bad blood between the army and air force comes down to how each service understands wars, and how they are fought. The air force has always been into new technologies, and new ways of fighting wars. The army is more about getting down and dirty and just getting the job done. The Secretary of Defense is siding with the army, and is telling the air force to get off their butts and get more Predators into the air, or else.
You have a severe case of AFDS.Unlike politicians,we all had (have)the same mission - defend the U.S.A.
(USAF 1969 - 1973)
Do I respect senior USAF ‘leadership’? Hell no! Based on my experience, I’d say about 1/3 of USAF Generals are competent enough to find their buttholes without a map & flashlight - the other two thirds could do so by looking into a mirror...
Having switched to EW some years back, I also find their total incompetence in EW embarrassing. Apart from that, the current crop majors in the minors. Their misplaced priorities turn my stomach, and are part of why I’ll be on terminal leave this summer.
However, I’ve also spent 3 1/2 years in assignments with the US Army. I’ve met a couple of US Army officers who were competent to discuss air ops. I’ve met hundreds who thought they were, but were not.
Experience has taught me that each service (I spent 3 years in a Navy Prowler squadron) has their own culture, and that there are good reasons why those service cultures evolved.
The USAF would be a miserable failure at ground war, although I think we would benefit if, instead of trying to cut 40-60,000 personnel, we offered them up for ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - why do we need to take years to enlarge the Army by 90K when we have 60K trained military in the USAF being forced out? I appreciate what the Navy does, although I’m glad I’m not in it. I’ll confess to a negative view of Marines, but perhaps I’ve just had the bad luck to run into a lot of Marines who habitually lied. To a large extent, USAF culture is what it is because it WORKS for employing airpower.
I know your frustration dealing with the USAF. I’ve felt the same way in dealing with the US Army. Two weeks ago, I found myself in a meeting as the sole USAF officer trying to explain to Army officers why their plan to do X with Y in flight ops in area Z would fail. Their plan isn’t physically possible, but I couldn’t get that thru to them even with crayons. If they proceed, they will spend millions and accomplish nothing other than some crashes.
Bottom line - if the US Army says something is a requirement for ground ops, I trust them. I wish the courtesy would be returned.
“Oh, and if Marines were sleeping in foxholes when there were hotels available, the Marines were stupid.”
And as I posted earlier, guns or butter, bullets or billets. In (the late Col.) Hackworth’s opinion, the Air Force had its spending priorities, and the Marine Corps apparently had slightly different priorities. Still seems to hold true today.
He doesn’t know 1/10th of what he thinks he knows about other subjects.
His knowledge on all things infantry suggests you know not of which you speak of that Good Man...
My daughter tried to join the Air Force a couple of years back and WANTED UAV work. They weren’t hiring. Said they were full up. She had 1 year college, now she has 3.
I’ve listened to Hackworth BS on the TV on a great many subjects. On those where I had expertise, he had none - but that didn’t stop him from pontificating.
Why is it the Air Force has no problem funding guns AND butter, bullets AND billets?
The USAF is providing convoy guards for the sandbox.
The USAF is providing security in the 'Stan and parts of the sandbox.
The USAF is providing CAS ground support to SOF
The USAF is providing massive amounts of airlift and resupply (those beans and bullets everyone wants in the field.
Oh, and providing RADAR coverage of the USA, alert fighers in the USA, global satcom, global surveillance from space, full nuke capability, and total air dominance of the battlefield so the ground pounders aren't bothered by overhead issues.
One thing I have noted over the years, working with my peers in the Marines, Army RANGERS, and even the odd squid - they were Americans all, willing to put thier life on the line to protect this great Nation.
Even the crummy button fighter pilot sleeping in his bag next to mine.... (I hear about fun meters one more time,,,and BAM)
“The USAF would be a miserable failure at ground war, although I think we would benefit if, instead of trying to cut 40-60,000 personnel, we offered them up for ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - why do we need to take years to enlarge the Army by 90K when we have 60K trained military in the USAF being forced out?”
They tried it, air force people have a narrow idea of ‘service’, they would rather be civilians than in the army.
“Sailors, airmen saying no thanks to Army offer
Number of Blue to Green transfer falls short of expectations
By Leo Shane III, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Wednesday, June 29, 2005
WASHINGTON — Only 375 airmen or sailors have so far transferred to the Army under the Blue to Green program, more than 3,000 soldiers short of what Army officials had hoped for.”
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=29215&archive=true
>”PART VI: OTHER CAREER OPPORTUNITIES
23. TRANSFERS TO ARMY ACTIVE DUTY (BLUE TO GREEN): THE AIR FORCE CONTINUES TO ENCOURAGE INTERESTED AND ELIGIBLE PERSONNEL TO APPLY FOR A TRANSFER TO THE ACTIVE DUTY ARMY. THIS PROGRAM IS OPEN TO BOTH QUALIFIED AIR FORCE OFFICERS AND ENLISTED AIRMEN.
A. ELIGIBILITY: O-1 THROUGH O-3 AND E-1 THROUGH E-5 MAY APPLY TO TRANSFER TO THE ARMY. THESE AIRMEN MUST MEET THE MINIMUM ACADEMIC AND PHYSICAL CRITERIA FOR ENTRY INTO THE ARMY. AIRMEN WHOSE RECORD CONTAINS DEROGATORY INFORMATION THAT WOULD PREVENT RETENTION IN THE AIR FORCE MAY NOT BE ACCEPTED BY THE ARMY. EXCLUSIONS: “<
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:_8k9p171NywJ:ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/forceshape/docs/FY08_Message_1.doc+operation+blue+to+green+resulted+in+few+transfers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us
The Air Force has no problem funding guns AND butter, bullets AND billets?
Better tell the new Secretary of Defense. See, he got involved with the growing number of complaints from Army officers about the Predator shortage. The Air Force had about a hundred Predators, but only a dozen were in Iraq. Questions were asked.
The Air Force said it did not have enough Predators, and that there was also a shortage of Predator operators, and that the Predator operators’ hotel concierge would look into providing alternate solutions amenable to all concerned.
Well said, ASOC!
It’s only natural for each of the services to poke fun at the other services, but when it comes down to others poking at all the services and the military in general, we need to be lined up shoulder to shoulder in unison and proclaim, “Don’t mess with my brothers and sisters serving and have served .... regardless of service affiliation”.
There were more than a dozen in theater. The writer doesn’t understand enough to write a coherent article.
As I’ve written, the CSAF has offered to put every Predator into theater, provided the SECDEF would accept the consequences.
The SECDEF, like the Joint Staff, sometimes wants what he wants WITHOUT consequence - but that isn’t how life works.
As for USAF funding, the fact that we’re trying to throw out 40-60K people to pay for equipment suggests we don’t have enough to pay the bills that are coming due from 20 years without new aircraft.
But ask any Grunt “What is the sweetest sound in the world”
You ‘might get’ a new born baby's cry or the sound of a rainstorm....
But most of the folks I know will say —
the sound of your CAS on hot final,
that funny *snik* sound that snakeye retarders make make coming off the rack or
(most favorite) the distinctive sound of the AC130 in a pylon turn, orbiting over your position and dealing death to Gomer thousands of rounds at a time....
7/13/2007 - WASHINGTON -- General T. Michael Moseley, the Air Force Chief of Staff, is accelerating delivery of the Defense Department's December 2009 goal of 21 daily Predator combat air patrols by one year.
At the CSAF's request, Air Force officials coordinated deployment actions with the Joint Staff and Central Command to increase three additional Air Force MQ-1 Predator unmanned aerial vehicle combat air patrols (CAPs), boosting full motion video and rapid strike capability to the Joint Force Commander in Iraq. Two of these CAPs are expected to be active this summer or early fall.
"The Predator provides a tremendous capability for our joint and coalition forces on the ground," said Lt. Gen. David A. Deptula, the deputy Air Force Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance. "The Air Force is pushing to expand Predator air patrols for Admiral Fallon's use as quickly as possible."
Currently, Airmen operate 12 Predator CAPs providing combat capability to joint forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The acceleration is possible due to the CSAF's "Total Force" approach to fielding enhanced combat capability. The recently increased Predator training capacity, and the inclusion of additional Air National Guard Airmen supports both increased flight operations and a more robust exploitation of Predator data.
Each Predator CAP provides 24-hour, seven days a week combat operations. They are flown by both active duty and Air National Guard personnel through secure communications to bases in Nevada,California and North Dakota. The Air Force will also begin flying Predator combat operations from Arizona next week, all part of the Chief of Staff's "Total Force" approach in combining Active, Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard capabilities in a much more inclusive and effective manner.
The U.S. Air Force continues to deploy all operational Predator assets and will look to sustain this combat capability as new production aircraft, ground stations and aircrew are delivered. To fully man this new level for Central Command the Air Force will maintain 160"Total Force" Predator crews, up from 120 last year.
Please note the writer of the original article doesn't understand the difference between a Predator vehicle and a Predator CAP.
From the FY 2009 UNFUNDED Requirements List (Feb 2008):
The MQ-1B Predator provides the Air Force’s primary full motion video (FMV) capability. CENTCOM requirements are quickly outpacing the program of record as Combat Air Patrols (CAPs) increases are continually requested to meet urgent operational needs. Current program of record supports 21 CAPs by FY09, however recent surge requirements increased to 24 CAPs in FY08. The proposed plus-up adds additional MQ-1 aircraft, spares, and ground control stations to meet rapidly increasing full motion video requirements allowing MQ-1 to meet increasing FMV urgent operational needs.
Let's be frank. We could both cite multiple examples of stupidity from all services.
I'm guessing that you had something to do with USMC aviation. I could level legitimate gripes against all services' aviation based on personal experience. However, the USMC has one hell of a good flying force and griping about them would only serve to diminish the fact that they do their jobs well.
Whenever I had the misfortune to deal with the air force I expected to be disappointed and that outfit never let me down.
Well, we sure didn't let Zarqawi down when he had the misfortune of dealing with us!
All kidding aside, though. Did the USAF frat a buddy of yours or something? I haven't run into this level of bitterness towards the Air Force in quite some time. That's pretty harsh treatment of a top-notch force composed of Americans who have volunteered to serve their country.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.