Posted on 03/20/2008 4:45:23 PM PDT by Aristotelian
Of all the claims in support of John McCain's bid for the White House, perhaps none is quite as grand as this. As he arrived in London today, the publishers of his new book insisted the Republican senator's family was descended from the Scottish king, Robert the Bruce.
For a veteran war hero staking his presidential campaign on military credentials, an ancestral link to a warrior who overcame the English to reclaim Scottish independence in 1314 has obvious appeal. But according to experts, the story may be no more than that.
Asked by the Guardian to investigate McCain's past, genealogists and medieval historians described the link to Robert the Bruce as "wonderful fiction" and "baloney".
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
I’d rather lay claim to being related to William Wallace — or even Mel Gibson. Who knows? I may be.
There are about a gazillion of these guys in the records ~ most of them were relatives of some sort to William Alexander, Lord Stirling. Colonel William Alexander, CO of the Maryland 400 "The Wild Geese" (the American Revolution's equivalent of the 300 Spartans) was the heir of Lord Stirling who arranged for almost the total evacuation of all remaining Alexanders from the Scottish Highlands.
That lineage by itself will get you into Robert the Bruce' line as well as that of MacBeth and Lady MacBeth, and she into the rolls of the Viking Kings from the earliest times.
It is a pure warriors' road all the way back if you descend from any of those guys.
Yes, plenty of honest mistakes, and old family myths. Plenty of deliberate mistakes, too, handed down from earlier times.
Shakespeare’s father bought himself a coat of arms, after he had made some money. That was not uncommon among up-and-coming Brits in those days. The beer barons in the time of Queen Victoria are another famous instance.
Napoleon's father also made a ton of money somewhere other than Corsica ~ I suspect that was in the fur trade in the then Western frontier of New York colony ~ after the Napoleonic wars, virtually all of Napoleon's relatives ended up in Upstate right where the furtrade activities took place. Many of their descendants continue to live in the area. (Otsego_.
“sratch that last post. I believe DNA tests work only work on paternal lines and not if it passes through a female (McCain’s great-aunt or whoever it was).”
I think MTDNA is what you can use it to check the ancestors on your mothers side.
Yes, it’s not uncommon. Upward mobility in England was easier than it was in France and Germany, where buying into the aristocracy was more difficult. It must have been a good, expensive forgery.
On the whole, such fakery was a good thing. It refreshed the aristocracy. I think that’s one reason why the agricultural, scientific, and industrial revolutions took place first in England—because they welcomed talent into the ruling classes much more readily than the stiffer societies on the Continent.
According to my Italian grandmother, her branch of my family went back to Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, the author of “On the Dignity of Man.” Pico in turn traced his ancestry back to Julius Caesar, I am told. Ergo . . . .
I haven’t really researched this, partly because it’s too much trouble, and partly because I’d hate to spoil the story.
Isn’t that North Carolina — as with the Battle of Moore’s Creek Bridge.
Doesn't mean the Brits didn't give away land in North Carolina, but South Carolina was less developed at the time ~
South Carolina had what amounted to a civil war in the midst of the Revolution.
“Pico in turn traced his ancestry back to Julius Caesar, I am told.”
And Julius (”Ilius”) traced his family back to Troy, and to Aeneas and Priam. . . :-)
(Can Scotts petition the crown for reparations because their ancestors were brought to America in chains 250 years ago?)
An off topic question.
My grandfather ^5 (Iam 6th gen) and his brother from Scotland fought with Cornwallis up to Yorktown.
How is it that they were left here? Abandoned? AWOL? TDY?
The family legend has it that Lord Cornwallis told them to write if they found any work, as he sailed.
Anyone ever heard of Beech Green Scotland? Circa 1759.
As one who actually IS related to Robert the Bruce, I’d say you’ve got your history right. More is the pity, but those are the facts. Personally I aim to do better, and so far so good.
Scots got their “reparations”. We’re living in it. A free America ~ not like the still enslaved Canada colony.
Now, why would Cornwalis leave troops on shore ~ several reasons ~ their term of service was up so he paid them mustering out pay and they simply stayed. Or, maybe he had a shortage of lift capacity back to the Old Country. Recall, Lafayette's cousin, Admiral Bouille (both those guys were Louis XVI's cousin too) had been using a large piece of the French navy to keep the Brits from resupplying Cornwallis, and they sank a few British ships.
Another reason for those guys staying is they had relatives in South Carolina~!
America wasn't necessarily all that good for rich people, but it was, in its day, the best poor man's land in the whole world. Land was cheap. The war was over. The Scots ran half the place. What's there to ask?
I still have my own personal "turning point" and that's Brooklyn where the Maryland 400 show the Brits that there are some mighty serious folks here.
It seems to me,the English,could easily trash McCain,seeing how their frame of mind,or mindset,would rather see Hillery of Obama win the Election.
BTW I wanted Duncan Hunter or Thompson for President.
It seems to me,the English,could easily trash McCain,seeing how their frame of mind,or mindset,would rather see Hillery or Obama win the Election.
BTW I wanted Duncan Hunter or Thompson for President.
Some members of my grandmother’s family have been members of the DAR since the fifties. We had pretty clear information about the service of two of the ancestors, less about others. We are even having trouble verifying some information from headstones.
The old guy did go to South Carolina, and IIRC was married there. The brother went to Canada and my guy went to SW Ohio.And they both did very well.
As to Beech Green Scotland all I ever find is a school in England and my kin asking the same question? Thanks
>>Errors in genealogy are very common.<<
You can go to the souvenir shop in Edinburgh castle, for example, and they will match your family name to families that have pretty tartans on the flimsiest evidence, e. g. somebody with your last name used to live near the other family. Then you can buy your pretty tartan tie and wear it proudly.
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