Chaldean archbishop kidnapped in Iraq found dead: church

Absolute right. I misread that. Apologies,

Saying that they value their faith LESS than their money would be offensive.

Exactly right. I was actually paying them a compliment. If, what farmer says is to be believed, they deserve our admiration for not converting, not fleeing, and not getting themselves killed. They deserve our admiration for paying a tribute in order to preserve their traditions and pass them on under undesirable circumstances. Apparently these kind of circumstances have existed for a thousand years. I would assume it is standard operating procedure in that part of the world. Unimaginable to us, but I suppose that's what makes other people foreigners.

Exactly right. I was actually paying them a compliment. If, what farmer says is to be believed, they deserve our admiration for not converting, not fleeing, and not getting themselves killed. They deserve our admiration for paying a tribute in order to preserve their traditions and pass them on under undesirable circumstances. Apparently these kind of circumstances have existed for a thousand years. I would assume it is standard operating procedure in that part of the world. Unimaginable to us, but I suppose that's what makes other people foreigners.

The Greeks, under the boot of the Ottoman Turks, couldn't even speak Greek for years in public, and their religion was carried on in secret. It is a testimony to their faith, and I apologize to you for mis-reading your take on the oppressed, but complimenting the oppressed is no reason to give gutter-trash Muslims a pass on their approach to others. Islam is dangerous, and the fact that Islam allows some of its enemies to live, on their terms, is no testimony of virtue.

“I think farmer18th identified one of the problems, which is that the current Iraqi constitution - approved by us - enshrines Islam (and sharia). “

Please elaborate. Where is Sharia mentioned in the Iraqi Constitution? Also, why is Takfir banned? How is Sharia possible with the prohibition of takfir?

“in any war, only about 10-20% of soldiers are actually on the front lines shooting. “

Where on earth did you get this from?

“Just so in Islam. Whether they are moderate or extremist, they still have the same goal. They seek to turn Dar Al Harb (the world at war—the world that hasn’t yet submitted) into Dar Al Islam (the world at peace—the world that has submitted). “

Right out of OBL’s handbook. Those who don’t fight against the west are traitors to Islam, blah, blah. Unfortunately for you, millions of Muslims reject this, ally with the west, and wage war on Al Qaeda. We are actively training Muslims in Iraq and elsewhere to fight against the extremists. We have military bases set up all over the muslim world.

“Get a life”

The anti-war trolls always resort to personal attacks when they can’t convince others with their psychobabble . They come with a pretext that our mission in Iraq is a ‘sham’. They pretend that our ally is our enemy, and cite OBL’s version of Islam as the one and only recognized version. They wrongly attribute this version to Muslim’s who are allied with the U.S., and then call for us to abandon our allies.

“Most Muslims SAY they hate extremist stuff, but they aren’t willing, as a group, to put their money where their mouth is.”

You can explain the Anbar Awakening how?

You want insults? I'll give them to you. You're a fool. You didn't see that my correspondent had made the observation that those of us who were pointing out that the war really is with Islam, not terror, were guilty of "broad-brush hate," thus using leftist-speak to end the dialogue.

Muslims allied with the U.S.? My good friend's son, a Mustang Marine officers son, attributes his life to the fact that he TRUSTED NO MUSLIM IN IRAQ. They worship at the shrine of Mohammed and Mohammed hated all Jews and all Christians. You want to fight under a war under the "It's a Small World" banner of Condi Rice, and get our soldiers killed for an "Islamic Republic," go right ahead, but don't pretend you're doing anyone any good.

“You want insults? I’ll give them to you. You’re a fool. “

You forgot to label me a neo-con. You are slipping.

“thus using leftist-speak “

Says the guy who runs around calling people neo-cons on a conservative web-site.

“Muslims allied with the U.S.? “

Bahrain, Qatar, Iraq, all willfully host U.S. military.

“My good friend’s son, a ..”

I don’t believe any of your personal tales.

I've been around here since 1999. You've been around here since 2004. Who is a troll and who isn't, Skippy?

Have fun building a nation with this as its foundational principle:
"No law that contradicts.. Islam may be established"

A big score for democracy.

“You can explain the Anbar Awakening how?”

The Anbar Awakening was Sunni’s turning against AQ. Does that mean they have turned against extreme Islam? No.
Extreme Islam gave birth to AQ. They’ve turned against a branch, but haven’t turned from the root of the problem: extreme Islam.

Says the guy who runs around calling people neo-cons on a conservative web-site.

That's a real beauty. I don't know any real conservatives who get choked up about Neo-Cons. Do you? Does ANYBODY? Jack Kemp took Sean Hannity to task for implying there might be corruption in the federal government. Our whole system of checks and balances was based on the notion that corruption was not only possible; it was LIKELY. The difference between Neo-Cons and Conservatives is that Neo-Cons have almost no historical framework. They also have a kind of personality-based cult worship of "their team" as opposed to "real principles." That's why Neo-Cons let GWB spend our kids into the ground over the last 8 years, because no one, including you, can take any criticism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbFZrLw0DJo

I doubt you’ll respond to post #192 with anything other than some bone headed comment. :-p

I wish we could keep the rancor to a minimum on this thread.

This saintly man deserves better.

Vultus Christi

March 13, 2008

"They Have Killed Our Shepherd"

At the end of Holy Mass today at the Monastery of the Glorious, we sang the antiphons In Paradisum and Chorus Angelorum for the repose of the soul of His Grace, Archbishop Paulos Fraj Rahho.

Adapted from the official Chaldean Community Website:

Mosul, IRAQ – The Chaldean community around the world stands numb and in disbelief at news of the death of Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho of Mosul.

Outcry from world leaders held no sway as fanatical terrorists proved once more that women, children, medical providers, and now spiritual leaders are not safe from their killing spree. “These are innocent people that want to help bring peace. They kill them, because they are filled with hate. These barbarians have no faith in anything, but their own rise to power,” said Omar Touma, a recent refugee and Chaldean parishioner of the Good Shepherd Chaldean Church in Canada.

Mournful cries and prayers spread quickly as e-mail and phone messaging communicated the sorrowful news. "Our Bishop is dead," said one message, accompanied by images of weeping families huddled together, comforting one another.

Church official say that the kidnappers had been demanding a heavy ransom. When requests were made to speak to the Archbishop, the kidnappers replied that the Archbishop was dead and gave instructions on how the Archbishop's body could be recovered.

The Chaldean Archbishop of Mosul had been dead for at least five days before his body was found this morning by members of the Church, following information provided by the kidnappers themselves. This timeline was provided by the autopsy conducted on the body of Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho. The Archbishop's body was found in an abandoned area outside of the city, which is in part used as a trash dump.

Archbishop Rahho was seized outside the Holy Spirit Cathedral in Mosul after conducting a Stations of the Cross service on Friday, February 29th. Three parishioners were killed by the gunmen who abducted the archbishop.

In the days after the kidnapping, Church leaders pleaded in vain for some clear evidence that Archbishop Rahho was alive and well. The Archbishop, who was 69, suffered from a serious heart condition and needed daily medication.

The identity of the kidnappers remains unknown. Although Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al Maliki had ordered an all-out effort to locate the archbishop and secure his release, troops were unsuccessful in their search around Mosul, a city dominated by insurgents and terrorists.

While the kidnappers did ask for a large money ransom, they were evidently not motivated solely by the desire for financial gain. Church spokesmen said that their demands included political conditions: an indication that the Archbishop's abduction was arranged by a terrorist group rather than simply a criminal gang.

Mosul is the most dangerous city for the Christian community, the presence of which has dropped by over 75% since 2003. Christians remain the soft target for insurgents, terrorists, and criminal gangs looking to raise money and fund their ongoing operations.

After the Iraqi government and coalition forces systematically began turning off funding sources for these militant and criminal groups, their focus turned towards Christians. Iraqi Christians tend to be educated professionals and considered wealthy. A pro-Islamic police force pursue crimes against Christians less aggressively since the victims have a dhimmi status under Islamic law.

The attacks have created a brain-drain in Iraq as Christian professionals flee the country in large numbers. Professors, doctors, scientists, and engineers have fled into neighboring regions or across the ocean seeking a haven of safety.

After Father Ragheed Ganni was murdered on 3 June 2007, intelligence revealed that the terrorists were politically motivated to drive Christians out of Iraq. The latest wave of violence against the Church occurred on 6-17 January 2008, when a series of explosions struck the Chaldean Church of Mary Immaculate, the Chaldean Church of St Paul, which was almost destroyed, the entryway to the orphanage run by the Chaldean Sisters in al Nour, a Nestorian church, and the convent of the Dominican sisters of Mosul Jadida.

“Our faith is in Jesus who died for the sins of humanity. He will find favour in our Chaldean Martyr who offered nothing but peace, hope, and love,” says Chaldean Catholic Omar Touma. “May Archbishop Raho rest in the arms of Our Lord and may God show mercy on those who continue to hate. They will not scatter the Chaldean flock because they have killed our shepherd. Our faith will now grow even stronger.”

“No law that contradicts.. Islam may be established”

You conviently left out the provisions that safeguard the freedoms of the Iraqis. In fact, the very next line of text, ‘No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of democracy.’, is an affront to radical Islam, who’s members like al Qaeda refer to democracy as a ‘filthy Greek import into the Muslim world’. If you noticed, Iraq is a democratic nation and al Qaeda has declared war on this democratically elected government. You may also want to note that this government is an ally of the U.S. An allied democratic nation in the heart of the middle east that not only rejects Al Qaeda, but actively fights against them. Yes, a big score for democracy indeed.

“Extreme Islam gave birth to AQ. They’ve turned against a branch, but haven’t turned from the root of the problem: extreme Islam.”

If they reject al Qaeda’s vision, this means they’ve turned against extreme Islam. How are they supporting extreme Islam?

“If they reject al Qaeda’s vision, this means they’ve turned against extreme Islam. How are they supporting extreme Islam?”

AQ did not create extreme Islam, extreme Islam created AQ.

How old are you? 15?

I wasn’t even sure what he was rambling on about. And I’m pretty good at detecting an arguement. If ‘neo-con’ once had a specific meaning, it has been destroyed by the isolationists and far left, who use it against anyone who supports the coalition’s efforts in Iraq.

“anything other than some bone headed comment.”

Now, which comments have I made that you feel are boneheaded?