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To: mdmathis6
The only issue I really see with pascal’s reasoning is that the lack of personalized ultimate certainty involved with the first scenario which then in time of stress or persecution, one may find that one’s personal faith(assuming a belief in God but not entirely convinced of his existence) may not have any deep root!

Yet the foulest mass murdering, baby killing, child rapist would go straight to Heaven, if they managed to accept Christ as their personal Savior in the last milliseconds of life. How deep is that root?

According to the most fundamental articles of faith for most Christians, deep enough.

258 posted on 03/10/2008 9:04:08 AM PDT by null and void (It's 3 AM, do you know where Hillary is? Does she know where Bill is? Does Bill know what 'is' is?)
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To: null and void

[[Yet the foulest mass murdering, baby killing, child rapist would go straight to Heaven, if they managed to accept Christ as their personal Savior in the last milliseconds of life. How deep is that root?]]

As Deep As God demands- God is no respector of persons. His offer is open to everyone. The simple white lie or bad thought is equally evil as any other sin, and is enough to prevent a person from goign to heaven. We are ALL born into sin and ALL are at enmity with God, whehter we are ‘good people’ or not- God sees the heart and judges on that- Is the heart an enemy of God? Or will it humbly bow before God and ask forgiveness? EVERY person born is responsible for murdering Christ in a horrific manner, hanging Him on a cross until his lungs collapsed in excruciating pain fro mthe weight of His body. Our enmity with God caused Christ to becoem a willing sacrifice for hte remission of our sins. Whiel we can point ot evil people and say God should never forgive them, we do so ignoring our own reprehensible culpability for the death of Christ.

Christ came ot save sinners- ANY sinner that falls before Him in true repentance. The Apostle Paul before He was saved, was cheif amoung hte murderers, being responsible for haivng peopel stoned to death for hteir faith in Christ, Yet God’s mercy, being freely open to sinners, was accepted by Paul- a mass murderer.

Suppose htere are two as yet unsaved people- one a wicked evil person, murderer, rapist, and all around wicked person- the other is a highly respected person- giving ot charities, helping peopel whenever they can, always looking out ofr others best interests above his own. Which is closer to God? The naswer is neither one! They both just as lost, just as unsaved! Christ came to save sinners! Salvation is NOT based on our works, it is Based on God’s merciful grace to ALL people! It is based NOT on what we do, but on unmerritted grace! We don’t ‘earn’ God’s grace- Grace is a FREE gift open to everyone.


273 posted on 03/10/2008 11:25:12 AM PDT by CottShop
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To: null and void

As I’ve read in scripture, I’ve seen little evidence of the worst of men being “converted. There is a time and place in each life that men may be given a chance to say yes or no. Yet consciences can be so seared that they will not respond to the Holy Spirit’s wooing, thus the Spirit ceases striving with them.

A thief was saved on the cross, the other was not. A pharoah’s heart was hardened leading to decisions that destroyed a sinful people but freed a chosen people. David committed grievous sins but was forgiven despite the national damage done.King Saul simply gave in to covetousness and tried to bribe God instead of destroying a certain people to the uttermost, thus causing God to reject him as king.

Christ spoke of the severe consequences pending against those who would specifically harm the little children he was blessing one day. God is fair and just and desires faith and truth in our inward parts. But he is always looking to save those who would be willing!

As for the depraved that you mention, while the promises regarding salvation apply to all men because of the blood spilt by Christ covers all sins, how many of such would actually come to the light so that they might be saved?...To attempt to do so would expose their inner selves and their deeds to such penetrating light that the shear enormity of their wickedness would be too frightening for them to confront in themselves, not to mention the sinister enjoyment they derive from their dark deeds. Such men are their own true gods, do you think they would allow God to be their true master?

Salvation starts with the wooing of the Spirit,and if certain depraved, particularly vicious men are saved, it is only because there was a spark of faith and desperation for the light of God that could be fanned into flame. Such a man was Saul who became Paul, who was guilty of the imprisonment and outright murder of members of the new sect of Christians just coming into being! He also received many beatings,inprisonments, and eventually execution in the name of the Christ he had once persecuted!

So you see, even some murderous evil men, while having been saved don’t always escape the consequences of their past lives!


290 posted on 03/10/2008 1:44:35 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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