Posted on 03/06/2008 5:53:24 PM PST by BGHater
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/oh_thats_change.html#comments
Here is what the indies are thinking ....
“I am sad to see many lost sight of what’s really at stakes: this country is in trouble, trillions of debt, growing deficit, mortgage trouble, inflation. Who’s best hand in this situation? Hillary. Obama’s is a gamble that this country cannot afford to risk. Some buy into Obama’s poll result of independents support. Poll can be wrong and change with time. I am independent who rather vote for McCain than Obama. His hope pitch rings empty like a salesman. He shrewdly used that and the black votes to win small caucuses early on to built up momentum and use the momentum to project air of inevitability. Caucuses tactics won’t work in general election, and many of his won states are traditional GOP states where he stand no chance against McCain. So he’s far from tested and invincible in general election. His image unfit as leader of the free world by kowtowing to rogue nation like Iran. Hillary had experience with Bill to turn the country around before, it’s not luck as attackers’ belittlement likes you to believe.”
Put. down. the. crackpipe.
I will not vote for or endorse a candidate who won't abide by his own sponsored and ill written campaign finance legislation and who takes millions of dollars from a mystery donor south of the border.
I refuse to vote for a candidate who accepts embryonic stem cell research and who back pedals on Roe v. Wade.
I will not champion a candidate that actively pursues to take measures that will hamstring our military and intelligence community's efforts to fight and kill terrorists.
I will not endorse or campaign for a candidate that wishes to provide captured terrorists the same rights and protections under the U.S Constitution as a U.S Citizen.
I will not participate by association and goofy bi-partisan legislation,in the global warming scam like McCain does.
I will not support McCain, who, as an advocate of the UN sponsored ICC, accepts the likelihood of a Star Chamber that threatens to try and convict members of our armed forces of war crimes at the drop of a hat.
I absolutely refuse to vote for, support, or in any way, encourage an open borders,illegal amnesty champion like McCain.
I refuse to meekly and blindly accept the globalist agenda that McCain operates under that ravages this nation with 20+ million illegals and another 10-20 million to finish the job over the next ten years.
If you are willing to accept what the proven liberal McCain has to offer, then:
a. You are no conservative
b. You deserve who you vote for
Put. down. the. crackpipe. Yourself.
I answered a question honestly about the effectiveness that conservative Republicans will have under two scenarios, and you go off on a rant. It’s pretty clear that Obama is to the left of McCain on just about every issues, including even illegal immigration. Bad vs Awful.
Conservative Republicans like Sen Sessions and others will be quite effective in thwarting the Democrat amnesty and open borders agenda like they are doing now, if the new President is like our current one; McCain would continue that situation and will not push amnesty unless/until border security progress is made. In a Clinton or Obama administration they will be IN-effective in thwarting the Democrat amnesty and open borders agenda, since Obama’s coattails will sweep in enough Democrats to implement amnesty and the conservative Republicans will be too outnumbered to stop it.
Maybe in your dreamworld you can stop the advance of Obama’s leftwing agenda with threats and demands and throwing the elections to liberal Democrats, just because McCain is not conservative enough for you. Fine, be that way, just dont pretend your tantrum over McCain’s RINO positions will help conservative cause, ‘cause it wont.
Obama is extremist pro-abortion.
Obama actively pursues to take measures that will hamstring our military and intelligence community’s efforts to fight and kill terrorists.
Obama will provide captured terrorists the same rights and protections under the U.S Constitution as a U.S Citizen.
Obama wants to regulate us in the global warming scam .
Obama is an advocate of the UN sponsored ICC, accepts the likelihood of a Star Chamber that threatens to try and convict members of our armed forces of war crimes at the drop of a hat.
Obama is an an open borders,illegal amnesty champion.
You whine about candidate M for being bad, yet say not a peep about candidate O who is worse.
I keep seeing the more conservative candidate bashed for being not-conservative-enough. Thompson and Romney were bashed in the primary, while McCain, much worse, was left alone. Only now, when he is the nominee, the long knives come out. Why didnt you help stop him in New Hampshire when your spleen-venting could have meant something?
You say: “You deserve who you vote for.” I voted for Alan Keyes this week... So I deserve an eloquent black man for President I guess. Yikes.
You misread my post. I never said “McCain would actually help stop amnesty”, what I saying was that McCain’s election provides a more realistic scenario for us stopping and/or slowing down amnesty than an Obama election. The agents to stop amnesty after this election would be the same conservative Republicans who stopped it before. And the main reason for that difference would lay in the number of Republican Senators we keep in the 2008 election. There is a difference.
I would add this from McCain’s speech at CPAC; while McCain is not dropping support for amnesty, he’s more gunshy than Obama on it:
http://www.politicswest.com/2008_election/19362/transcript_john_mccains_cpac_speech
“Surely, I have held other positions that have not met with widespread agreement from conservatives. I won’t pretend otherwise nor would you permit me to forget it. On the issue of illegal immigration, a position which provoked the outspoken opposition of many conservatives, I stood my ground aware that my position would imperil my campaign. I respect your opposition for I know that the vast majority of critics to the bill based their opposition in a principled defense of the rule of law. And while I and other Republican supporters of the bill were genuine in our intention to restore control of our borders, we failed, for various and understandable reasons, to convince Americans that we were. I accept that, and have pledged that it would be among my highest priorities to secure our borders first, and only after we achieved widespread consensus that our borders are secure, would we address other aspects of the problem in a way that defends the rule of law and does not encourage another wave of illegal immigration.”
Note the wording ...
Only AFTER “we achieved widespread consensus that our borders are secure” MEANS that he is promising not to bring up ‘comprehensive’ reform on his agenda until we are agreed that the borders are secure. So we have at least 2 years of breathing room.
John McCain is not backing down from his position per se, but he is waving the white flag on pushing this, knowing how much it caused the base to revolt.
Meanwhile, Obama is for drivers licenses for illegal aliens, for chain migration without end, for turning the 12 million into citizens, and for the usual gasbag-phony sure-lets-secure-the-border-but-walls-are-mean-and-nasty view on border security.
End though McCain has been pretty bad on this issue, Obama manages to be worse.
BULLSHIT. Quit smokin' crack. It's killing your brain cells.
” They will have to run against the maverick standard bearer of the GOP, which will put them more at risk.”
They run as who they are, and most will run more conservative than McCain. Cornyn is on our ticket in Texas. Simple math: if McCain does well, Cornyn does will. If McCain does poorly, a pro-amnesty Democrat Hispanic could win in Texas. one more vote for amnesty.
“Only the Stupid Party [GOP] nominates its maverick to be its nominee for President.” Whats done is done.
“If McCain does well, it may very well hurt the rest of the Reps in terms of reelection or being elected.”
the amount of coattails could vary, but McCain’s fortunes good or bad would mean good or bad things for other candidates. If you lack faith in McCain, get worried. All I can tell you is this much - big obama win = disaster for all of us; it would be the bleak prospects of a complete Democrat sweep and a complete and drastic move to the left, the likes of which we have not seen since the 1960s or 1930s.
John McCain has pledged in his CPAC speech as much:
“while I and other Republican supporters of the bill were genuine in our intention to restore control of our borders, we failed, for various and understandable reasons, to convince Americans that we were. I accept that, and have pledged that it would be among my highest priorities to secure our borders first, and only after we achieved widespread consensus that our borders are secure, would we address other aspects of the problem in a way that defends the rule of law and does not encourage another wave of illegal immigration.”” - John McCain
You are free to take how ever many grains of salt you wish on it, but McCain made the promise and he is not one to back out of commitments like this.
PS. Quit making snarky comments about me, its killing your credibility.
“Uh, when has McCain EVER sincerely advocated an actual fence?” Sincere or insincere, he voted for it in september 2006. He’s voted for funding.
” And even if he did starting today, wouldn’t that make him a flip-flopper?”
Wouldn’t it be a joyous thing if he were to change his real position? I think the real problem is that he was wrong last year, he got burned badly and has made some, but not much, rhetorical shift in a conservative direction. is it just an election year tapdance? IMHO, he is genuine in his CPAC pledge but it is not enough for him to be trusted on it. YMMV.
In any case, he is for “border security” in his website.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm
mmigration is one of those challenging issues that touch on many aspects of American life.
I have always believed that our border must be secure and that the federal government has utterly failed in its responsibility to ensure that it is secure. If we have learned anything from the recent immigration debate, it is that Americans have little trust that their government will honor a pledge to do the things necessary to make the border secure.
As president, I will secure the border. I will restore the trust Americans should have in the basic competency of their government. A secure border is an essential element of our national security. Tight border security includes not just the entry and exit of people, but also the effective screening of cargo at our ports and other points of entry.
But a secure border will contribute to addressing our immigration problem most effectively if we also:
* Recognize the importance of building strong allies in Mexico and Latin America who reject the siren call of authoritarians like Hugo Chavez, support freedom and democracy, and seek strong domestic economies with abundant economic opportunities for their citizens.
* Recognize the importance of pro-growth policies — keeping government spending in check, holding down taxes, and cutting unnecessary regulatory burdens — so American businesses can hire and pay the best.
* Recognize the importance of a flexible labor market to keep employers in business and our economy on top. It should provide skilled Americans and immigrants with opportunity. Our education system should ensure skills for our younger workers, and our retraining and assistance programs for displaced workers must be modernized so they can pursue those opportunities
* Recognize the importance of assimilation of our immigrant population, which includes learning English, American history and civics, and respecting the values of a democratic society.
* Recognize that America will always be that “shining city upon a hill,” a beacon of hope and opportunity for those seeking a better life built on hard work and optimism.
Border security and our failed immigration system are more examples of an ailing Washington culture in need of reform to regain the trust of Americans. In too many areas — from immigration and pork barrel spending to Social Security, health care, energy security and tax relief — business-as-usual politics prevents addressing the important challenges facing our nation.
Cornyn could do well regardless of how McCain does. I could give you plenty of examples where there is no correlation between how well a Presidential candidate does and a senator from the same party on the ticket. Split tickets are not that unusual. Despite Reagan's massive landslides, the Dems retained control over the House. All politics are local. That said, we have the case of a Presidential candidate, McCain, holding positions similar to the Dems on many issues and opposite of the Reps. I watched many of the 2006 mid term debates among congressiional candidates. When the amnesty question came up, the Dem candidate invariably said he/she favored the Bush/McCain approach, which just disarmed the Rep who favored an enforcement first approach.
If you lack faith in McCain, get worried. All I can tell you is this much - big obama win = disaster for all of us; it would be the bleak prospects of a complete Democrat sweep and a complete and drastic move to the left, the likes of which we have not seen since the 1960s or 1930s.
It is not a matter of faith but poltical reality. 2008 will be a Dem year regardless of who we run. The problem is that McCain will be a negative for most Reps running on the ticket. He is pro-amnesty, a believer in man-made global warming and the need to pass things like carbon credits, for more federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, is against drilling in ANWAR, for closing Gitmo, etc. McCain will depress the Rep vote especially when they watch the Presidential debates and see McCain espousing the Dem line on so many issues. And the visuals of an old man against the young stud will be telling.
“2008 will be a Dem year regardless of who we run.”
I disagree with such fatalism.
This strange trip is not over yet and the fat lady has neither sung nor thrown the Dem convention into chaos.
We shall see.
Dont for get the economy, in which case these issues will come to the fore:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/0B8E4DB8-5B0C-459F-97EA-D7B542A78235.htm
John McCain believes taxes should be low, simple, and fair and has a track record of commitment to these principles.
Cut Taxes On The Middle Class
* Cut Taxes For Middle Class Families: Hard-working American families need lower taxes. John McCain will permanently repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) — a tax that will be paid nearly exclusively by 25 million middle class families. John McCain will repeal this onerous tax, saving middle class families nearly $60 billion in a single year. Under McCain’s plan, a middle class family with children set to pay the AMT will save an average of over $2,700 — a real tax cut for working families.
Pro-Growth Tax Policy
* Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security — a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will fight the Democrats’ crippling plans for a tax increase in 2011. Left to their devices, Democrats will impose a massive $100 billion tax hike, almost $700 per taxpayer every year.
* Make It Harder To Raise Taxes: John McCain believes it should require a 3/5 majority vote in Congress to raise taxes.
* Cut The Corporate Tax Rate From 35 To 25 Percent. A lower corporate tax rate is essential to U.S. competitiveness. America was once a low-tax business environment, but as our trade partners lowered their rates, America failed to keep pace, leaving us with the second-highest rate among the world’s advanced economies.
* Reward Saving, Investment and Risk-Taking: Low taxes on dividends and capital gains promote saving, channel investment dollars to innovative, high-value uses and not wasteful financial planning. John McCain will keep the current rates on dividends and capital gains and fight anti-growth efforts by Democrats.
* Allow First-Year Deduction, Or “Expensing”, Of Equipment And Technology Investments. Expensing of equipment and technology will provide an immediate boost to capital expenditures and reward investments in cutting-edge technologies.
Pro-Innovation Tax Cuts
* Ban Internet Taxes: John McCain believes we must make a farsighted, robust, and fervent commitment to innovation and new technologies to sustain our global competitiveness, meet our national security challenges, achieve less costly and more effective health care, reduce dangerous dependence on foreign sources of oil, and raise the quality of education in the United States. John McCain has been a leader in keeping the Internet free of taxes. As President, he will seek a permanent ban on taxes that threaten this engine of economic growth and prosperity.
* Ban New Cell Phone Taxes: John McCain understands that the same people that would tax e-mail will tax every text message — and even 911 calls. John McCain will prohibit new cellular telephone taxes.
* Establish Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D. This reform will simplify the tax code, reward activity in the United States, and make us more competitive with other countries. A permanent credit will provide an incentive to innovate and remove uncertainty. At a time when our companies need to be more competitive, we need to provide a permanent incentive to innovate, and remove the uncertainty now hanging over businesses as they make R&D investment decisions.
Retirement Tax Cut
* Lower Medicare Premiums: Seniors face a growing threat from higher Medicare premiums that tax away their Social Security and retirement savings. John McCain has proposed comprehensive, pro-market health care and Medicare reforms to reduce health care costs and control increases in premiums — while delivering high-quality health care.
REFORMING WASHINGTON TO REGAIN THE TRUST OF TAXPAYERS
Wasteful spending in Washington has gone from irresponsible to indefensible. Right now, even the government reports that one-fifth of programs are receiving failing marks. John McCain will restore the trust that Americans have lost in their government spending their hard earned money wisely. (John McCain’s detailed government reform plan may be found here.)
Eliminating Wasteful Spending
* Stop Earmarks, Pork-Barrel Spending, And Waste: John McCain will veto every pork-laden spending bill and make their authors famous. As President, he will seek the line-item veto to reduce waste and eliminate earmarks that have led to corruption. Earmarks restrict America’s ability to address genuine national priorities and interfere with fair, competitive markets.
* Leadership, Courage And Choices: Reduced spending means making choices. John McCain will provide the courageous leadership necessary to control spending, including:
o Eliminate broken government programs. The federal government itself admits that 1 in 5 programs do not perform.
o Reform our civil service system to promote accountability and good performance in our federal workforce.
o Eliminate earmarks, wasteful subsidies, and pork-barrel spending.
o Reform procurement programs and cut wasteful spending in defense and non-defense programs.
Budgetary Reform To Give Tax Cuts A Fair Chance
* Congress Has Unfairly Stacked The Deck To Spend More And Raise Taxes.
o If a spending program is on the books, budgets assume that it is on the books forever — and continues to grow — even if the law says it expires.
o If low taxes are on the books, budgets don’t assume that they last forever. When they expire, those taxes are automatically raised.
o John McCain will reform budgeting to treat equally spending and taxes and to stop damaging tax hikes.
Reforming Entitlement Programs For The 21st Century
* Reform Social Security: John McCain will fight to save the future of Social Security and believes that we may meet our obligations to the retirees of today and the future without raising taxes. John McCain supports supplementing the current Social Security system with personal accounts — but not as a substitute for addressing benefit promises that cannot be kept. John McCain will reach across the aisle, but if the Democrats do not act, he will. No problem is in more need of honesty than the looming financial challenges of entitlement programs. Americans have the right to know the truth and John McCain will not leave office without fixing the problems that threatens our future prosperity and power.
* Control Medicare Growth: The growth of spending on Medicare threatens our fiscal future. John McCain has proposed comprehensive health care reforms that will reduce the growth in Medicare spending, protect seniors against rising Medicare premium payments, and preserve the advancements in medical science central to providing quality care.
Trade and Displaced Workers
* Lower Barriers to Trade: John McCain believes that globalization is an opportunity for American workers today and in the future. Ninety-five percent of the world’s customers lie outside our borders and we need to be at the table when the rules for access to those markets are written. To do so, the U.S. should engage in multilateral, regional and bilateral efforts to reduce barriers to trade, level the global playing field and build effective enforcement of global trading rules.
* Competitive American Workers: John McCain understands that globalization will not automatically benefit every American. We must prepare the next generation of workers by making American education worthy of the promise we make to our children and ourselves. We must be a nation committed to competitiveness and opportunity. We must fight for the ability of all students to have access to any school of demonstrated excellence. We must place parents and children at the center of the education process, empowering parents by greatly expanding the ability of parents to choose among schools for their children.
McCain said on MTP that he would sign the McCain-Kennedy bill if it came to the WH. McCain has not changed his position on amnesty. He is still for legalizing the status of those who entered this country illegally. If that happens, this country is finished. You not only legalize the 12 to 20 million illegals, but pave the way for a minimum of 66 million LEGAL immigrants [assuming there are only 12 million illegals] who will enter thru chain migration, i.e., family reunification. It will also cost $2.6 trillion for our entitlement programs.
I have no idea who you are or what you really want. But, if your heart so dictates--don't vote for John McCain.
Just promise that you'll not bother us with your whining and indignation when Hillary Clinton is sworn in as President of the United States.
I hope we're clear on this. If not, just let me know.
Thanks.
In the case of Obama, he voted AGAINST THE CLOTURE on the bill, THE KEY VOTE. I checked the actual vote. Obama was in a tiny anti-fence minority on that vote.
Obama also was against it in May 2006 when it came up. Practically all votes but one were anti-fence votes. Only the final vote did he pull a John Kerry and flip. Obama was against the fence before he was for it.
Will this go away? I think it might.
McCain is a flawed candidate who represents the past and the Washington establishment. He really has very little to offer in terms of new ideas and proposals.
FYI: His proposal on SS is a joke. During the debates he spoke glowingly about Reagan's compromise in 1983 with Tip O'Neill. In fact, the compromise kept the Ponzi scheme going by raising taxes and decreasing benefits including raising the retirement age for full benefits from 65 to 67. McCain is for personal accounts as a supplement to SS, which is a non-starter. SS is a pay as you go system. It will go in the red in 2017. Something will have to be done before then regardless of who is in office. And Medicare will go bust in 2013. There are two things that will destroy this country: immigration and the entitlement programs. McCain has the wrong answers for both.
Is he available?
He voted for the bill, which passed in October 2006. McCain didn't support the enforcement first bill [sponsored by Sensenbrenner] that was passed by the House in December 2005 [H.R. 4437]. Instead, McCain held border security hostage to CIR. McCain's 2006 Senate amnesty bill [S. 2611] had less fence, about 300 miles and only about half had to be completed before amnesty was granted. McCain-Kennedy was even worse.
Funny you should mention Kerry who approached McCain about being his running mate in 2004. The very fact that Kerry would ask him should give you some idea as to where McCain stands on the political spectrum.
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