Posted on 03/01/2008 8:45:57 AM PST by Sons of Union Vets
As you can read on the other threads, a Boeing plane would have been dependent on Chinese communist parts. I personally trust the French and Germans slightly farther than I do the ChiComs.
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Airbus in China
http://www.airbus.com/en/worldwide/airbus_in_china.html
Airbus to spend GBP67m on Chinese parts by 2010
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2004_Oct_12/ai_n6233306
Airbus Joins Hands with China’s Aviation Industry for Business Expansion
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200206/26/eng20020626_98590.shtml
China’s plane parts industry takes off: News analysis
China is fast becoming a major world producer of aircraft parts and components as foreign aircraft manufacturers, including Boeing and Airbus, are stepping up production in the country.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200401/20/eng20040120_133067.shtml
Airbus, China reach accord on massive aircraft order, A350 cooperation
Tuesday November 27, 2007
China’s government reached agreement with Airbus yesterday on firm orders for 110 A320 family aircraft and 40 A330s valued at approximately $15 billion and also signed an MOU with the manufacturer stipulating that Chinese industry will take a 5% stake in A350 XWB production.
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=10935
China to pay E7.7 billion for 150 Airbus planes
By Don Phillips and David LaguePublished: TUESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2005
PARIS: Airbus and China on Monday announced a E7.7 billion order for 150 narrow-body A320 aircraft and said they would study building a final assembly line for the aircraft in China.
The long-expected order, worth $9 billion, allows Airbus to surpass Boeing’s recent China orders and puts the company ahead of Boeing for aircraft orders taken this year. Aircraft manufacturers see China and India as the two top markets for aircraft sales in the next decade as travel expands in their growing economies.
Final assembly in China would give Airbus an important advantage, perhaps similar to the advantage that Boeing has gained in Japan by having Japanese companies build a significant number of components for the new Boeing 787. The 787 does not undergo final assembly in Japan, however....read more....
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/05/business/airbus.php
Airbus to source more from China
by Joseph Chaney
Posted 05 September 2007 @ 10:16 am EST
HONG KONG - European plane-maker Airbus wants to source more parts from China and grab more market share from arch-foe Boeing in a market it expects to double every five to six years. The firm owned by EADS, which edged ahead of Boeing this year in the annual race to chalk up more sales, plans to buy as much as $400 Million worth of parts from Chinese manufacturers by 2015, Airbus China President Laurence Barron told the Reuters China Century Summit.
Despite a global backlash over the quality and safety of goods made on the world’s factory floor, Barron said Airbus would source more and more complex aircraft components such as wings.
They “started out making basic parts like doors, fairly simple stuff. But a wing is about as complex as air structures get,” Barron said at the summit held in Hong Kong......read more.....
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20070905/airbus-sourcing-china.htm
Airbus to give Chinese companies 5 percent of contracts for new jet
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/26/business/airbus.php
Airbus spares no effort in its China plan
As of the end of August, 11 mainland carriers were operating 366 Airbus aircraft with 377 still on order. Coping with a growing customer base and providing timely, efficient support and service to Chinese airlines will decide whether aircraft manufacturers such as Airbus can continue their success in China.
Airbus has a network of spares and support centers in Beijing, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Singapore and Washington, DC. It has a spares warehouse valued at more than US$30 million in Beijing and contracted another one in Shanghai last year.
Pierre Steffen, Airbus China vice-president for customer services, talks to China Daily reporter Lu Haoting about his new plan to better serve Chinese airlines and the potential of China to grow into a regional hub for customer service..........read more
http://www.hangzhou.com.cn/20070912/ca1379770.htm
"Boeing procurement from China is significantly greater than other aviation companies. In fact, Boeing is China's aviation manufacturing industry's largest foreign customer."
"China has an increasingly sophisticated and expanding part to play in the commercial aviation industry and has a role on all of Boeing commercial airplane models-737, 747, 767, 777 and the newest and most innovative airplane, the 787 Dreamliner."
"Since the 1980s, Boeing has purchased over US$1 billion in aviation hardware and services from China."
"With these new contracts signed in June 2007, Boeing and Boeing supplier partners have active supplier contracts with China aviation industry valued at well over US$2.5 billion (18 billion CNY)"
"There are 4500 Boeing airplanes with parts and assemblies built by China flying throughout the world today."
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/boechina.html
In Boeing’s own words:
“Boeing procurement from China is significantly greater than other aviation companies. In fact, Boeing is China’s aviation manufacturing industry’s largest foreign customer.”
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Actually, I have a problem with ANY of these manufactureres of our military equipment using Chinese made parts! So in that respect, we are singing off of the same sheet of music.
Perhaps Boeing should have gotten off their laurels and come up with a competative alternative to Airbus’ instead of taking it for granted that Uncle Sucker would just keep writing them cheques just for being an American company....
According to Northrop website...
Northrop Grumman's KC-30 Tanker Will Generate 5,000 New Jobs in Alabama and Increase Economic Impact to $1 Billion Annually http://www.northropgrumman.com/kc30/benefits/impact.html
“I’d also suggest that Boeing didn’t do itself any favors by: (1) failing to meet deadlines in the delivery of other aircraft in recent months, and (2) having a couple of its executives involved in a scandal involving potential bribery of U.S. military and/or government officials in the months leading up to this selection.”
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I am not so naive as to suggest that Boeing is without sin, but neither is Airbus.
In fact, just about a year and a half ago Airbus/EADS was involved in a very nasty scandal that originated with Airbus’ own failure to meet deadlines due to electrical wiring problems in the manufacturing of the new (civilian) Airbus A380.
On the basis of this “insider” information about the wiring problems not available to other stockholders, “co-CEO” Noel Forgeard decided to do a little insider trading and dumped his stock - causing a major financial problem for Airbus, and the French, German and British governments. Here are some articles describing the scandal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No%C3%ABl_Forgeard
As it was, EADS had to name two CEO’s to end the squabbling between the French and the Germans over who was going to sit in the catbird seat. Forgeard was said to be a creature of Chirac.
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EADS finally names its new bosses
“Airbus owner EADS has finally named Noel Forgeard and Thomas Enders as its new joint chief executives, ending months of reported boardroom wrangling.
Their appointments had been delayed after reports of a bitter dispute between EADS’ German and French shareholders.
The row centred on Frenchman Mr Forgeard’s alleged wish to also hold onto the top job at Airbus.
EADS’ German shareholders publicly opposed such a move.
Mr Forgeard is now being replaced as Airbus chief executive by Gustav Humbert, who will become the first German to run the Toulouse-based firm......read more.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4623659.stm
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Share the gain, share the pain.............
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EADS and Airbus bosses both quit
The embattled co-chief executive of Airbus parent company EADS, Noel Forgeard, has resigned.
The announcement comes after intense pressure on Mr Forgeard to quit in the wake of an insider trading scandal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5138840.stm
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“There are several inter-related strands to this story. Airbus is a European flagship company with a complex governance structure through its parent EADS which involves particularly French and German Governments. The business theme is centred around the fierce competition between Airbus and Boeing products. The political theme involves unresolved bickering about the ways in which the US and European governments subsidize their commercial interests. There are additional fascinating manufacturing, logistic, and technological issues to do with creating next-generation products across multiple international sites, and meet increasingly drifting deadlines. Oh, yes, and Airbus is struggling to achieve considerable cost-cuttings with industrial relations troubles. Add to all these issues a series of allegations of corruption. “....read more....
http://leaderswedeserve.wordpress.com/category/noel-forgeard/
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Noel Forgeard and the A380
“It has been a year to forget for EADS co-CEO Noel Forgeard, from repeated
A380 delays to an A380 evacuation drill that resulted in 32 injuries and a
broken leg, as well as allegations of insider trading.”
http://www.leeham.net/filelib/Forgeard.pdf
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Profile: Noel Forgeard
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5138870.stm
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CEO Forgeard Losing Altitude
According to press reports, the co-chief executive of European aeronautics giant EADS is expected to resign this week. His departure would mark the culmination of a crisis that has seen the company’s share price fall in recent weeks by 30 percent.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,423870,00.html
Perhaps Boeing should have gotten off their laurels and come up with a competative alternative to Airbus’ instead of taking it for granted that Uncle Sucker would just keep writing them cheques just for being an American company....
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I have no argument with you there, Thundry, and I don’t pretend to know everything at play here, but I don’t feel that this justifies the awarding of military contracts to a foreign companies controlled by foreign governments.
I have a very uneasy feeling about this turn of events.
Blame Boeing for not being able to offer the better product at the best price.
I thought conservatives don’t believe is welfare. To give Boeing the contract would be the very definition of corporate welfare, i.e. giving money to someone who hasn’t earned it. With the knowledge that in the future they no longer to have earn it an open free competition, but can keep counting on the government gravy train to feed them no matter how poor their quality and their costs.
Hopefully, Boeing learns from this, improve both their cost and their quality, so when the next contract comes they will earn it.
Protectionists policies don’t work, all they do is reward laziness and stupidity, any time those things are rewarded, expect more of it, which will hurt the economy much more in the long run.
Hopefully, Boeing learns from this, improve both their cost and their quality, so when the next contract comes they will earn it.
Protectionists policies don’t work, all they do is reward laziness and stupidity, any time those things are rewarded, expect more of it, which will hurt the economy much more in the long run.
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I understand what you are saying and I basically agree, but I still don’t think this justifies awarding government military contracts to foreign manufacturers controlled by foreign governments - and which are themselves not exactly “squeaky clean.”
That's what Boeing assumed. How did that work out?
To give Boeing the contract would be the very definition of corporate welfare, i.e. giving money to someone who hasn’t earned it.
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Speaking of corporate welfare, there has been an ongoing debate within the World Trade Organization about government subsidized corporations of which EADS/Airbus is one - subsidized by the French government. The French argue that U.S. government contracts are basically the same thing....and in a sense you could argue that they are.
But if Boeing in unsuccesful in appealing the awarding of the contract, EADS will be “double-dipping,” so to speak in terms of being subsidized by the French government AND receiving a government contract from the United States.
How fair is that?
Airbus had more money and didn’t get caught apparently.
It would be great for us, it would be the French subsidizing the US Air Force.
Look, without knowing all the details, obviously it’s hard for you or I to say anything definitive. If Airbus winning the bid is simply because of government subsidies, and Boeing would have won the bid absent that single factor, than Boeing can argument that the US has a legitimate government interest in keeping such a key defense industry thriving within our borders.
I am simply arguing against the populist knee jerk reaction that says to “protect US jobs”, that people should always buy US made products. I say no, because if you buy bad US products, all you’re doing is rewarding bad behaviors, which encourages more bad behavior.
It would be great for us, it would be the French subsidizing the US Air Force.
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LOL Never looked at it like that before!
Look, without knowing all the details, obviously it’s hard for you or I to say anything definitive.
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This is very true, but this blog is, nevertheless, a great place to consider possibilities and share ideas.
Someone I was talking to about this issue recently suggested that I toss this idea out on the table.
President Bush is the one who nominated Sue Payton (probably in good faith)to her post of Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Research and Development in 2006.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Sue_C._Payton
http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=8723
Now maybe Sue Payton also did what she did in good faith - and really does believe that she is getting us the biggest bang for our taxpayer buck.
However, the person I spoke with suggested that perhaps the thing that might be most interesting to watch is where Ms. Payton goes if there is a change in the administration after the 2008 election.
If she gets a nice cushy “consulting” job with EADS/ Airbus, then perhaps we will have been justified in any suspicions that we might have had that the awarding of this contract to EADS/Airbus reeked with corruption.
In any case, Truthsearcher, I still LOVE the idea of the French government subsidizing our military! Too funny! ;-)
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