The final word belongs to Brig. Gen. Angela Salinas, the recruit depot's commanding officer.
Posted on 03/01/2008 4:58:59 AM PST by radar101
The Publicity last week didn’t hurt: They were going to give him a Dishonorable.
Semper Fi Cpl. Wendel.
Wow...getting hit with a stick and a flashlight...I think I would have prefered that to an an M16 rifle butt or a fist, which where my junior DI’s weapons of choice when I was on the Island. The Corps is getting soft....
The final word belongs to Brig. Gen. Angela Salinas, the recruit depot's commanding officer.
My thoughts exactly. The Corps sure has changed since my time on PI. I can still feel the indention in my noggin where my Drill Instructor popped me in the side of the head with an M16, 25 years later. Difference is, I sucked it up because I knew I had screwed up pretty badly and I wanted to be a Marine more than anything.
I read the article and tried to imagine the sheer terror these kids must have felt being "herded into bathroom stalls". But, then again, it was at MCRD San Diego....must have been difficult to squeeze into a stall with their surfboards.
Semper Fi, Mac.
ah jeez............nevermind.
Let's see, hit with a fist......never. Hit with a flashlight........never.
I was taught to only use my hands as the last resort......
Now I may have run into a helmet, forehead, boot, pugil stick.........or did a warm up run with sweat suit, rifle and poncho for 7-8 miles and then start exercising.....hahahahahahahaha
Drinking beer in an unauthorized area......... puhleeze. I only met one guy that didn't drink beer and it was because he promised his mom he wouldn't. We had more respect for that guy for his integrity and he also was designated driver and keeper of the money.
now as far as the Corps getting soft...... no chance. These Marines made every Marine alive proud as heck at Falluja and other sh#t holes throughout the Iraq/Afghanistan area of operation. The Marines that are in at this time have more combat experience than any Marine since WW II.
They also have the dubious distinction of having to fight enemies on the battlefield and in the courtroom. I feel sorry for the current crop of Marines...... but I'm just more jealous that I'm to old and my neck and knees make to much noise to go hunting with these men.
Hundreds of other DIs have managed to turn out hundreds of thousands of marines without having to smack them around with flashlights. Are you saying that they’re doing a poor job?
...OK, OK...so us Hollywood Marines have surfboards..... but the sun tan lotion made us slide together real easy when we were crammed in stalls..hahahahahahaa.
They wanted this guy out.... most of the Marines understand the diff between abuse and "getting your brain housing group" in proper working condition. I mean really, fist and flashlight....drinking beer in an unauthorized area...... he pissed in somebody's oatmeal up the chain of command and is paying the price.
LOL, who didn't?
Too bad the Corps has been forced, by PC, to be more than "The Band of Brothers" it was created as (call me old fashioned, I just think I'm practical and traditional).
Hopefully, she'll do the right thing for this young Marine.
Did you happen to notice she qual'd NSF (in my Expert opinion!) with the pistol? :)
She's not a Marksman at least, but she's no Expert either.
Semper Fi.
You're sure that none of the other DI's smacked or touched a Marine while in boot camp? Not one time.
It's the Marines. There is a difference between abuse and training. This guy somehow is being made a scapegoat with the other knuckle-head.
It's their job to get them ready for COMBAT. Stress and violence, with the ability to respond without questions to orders at ALL TIMES and act as one cohesive unit is the key to the Marine success.
Training is repetition and attention to detail in such a manner as actions are second nature with instant response even if tired, wet, cold and especially AFRAID.
There is nothing natural about fighting through an ambush, when everything in your body wants you to hunker down and hide in the kill zone. But you have to move your a##, fire your weapon, maneuver and attack in spite of people shooting at you. If you get hit and aren't killed you keep shooting and moving, otherwise you die and your brothers die........
So having to perform mindless tasks in spite of pain, humiliation, fear, exhaustion and not eating your Ding-Dong for lunch is part of the gig. Cause when these fine young men have to go through a street or knock down a door and clear a building, the last thing you want to do is wonder if everybody, "feels ok" or "has a boo-boo"....
Have you seen any Marines "captured" in this conflict? Wonder why?
Now I'm not defending these guys, but please don't think that instilling fear and getting somebody's attention is the same as abuse. It's all about context and situation.
I don't talk to my kids in church like I do when we're at the rifle range.....but I want them to follow the rules in both places. You see what I mean?
Good to see him out of the military. No need for nonsense. Good riddence.
Boot camp...... prepares you for combat... the violence, the boredom, the humor and the pain......
Most guys don't join the Marines for the educational benefits or bonuses.....they join to become Marines.
“Hundreds of other DIs have managed to turn out hundreds of thousands of marines without having to smack them around with flashlights. Are you saying that they’re doing a poor job?”
After 40 years I still believe that one remembers an ass kicking longer than an ass chewing. My oldest and youngest sons got through OK and still love the corps. Of those hundreds have them email me, they certainly were not around for me and my sons and I am thankful they were not.
best regards
There is a profound difference between getting a “love tap” for doing something that may one day cost you your life, or the lives of others, and say the Ribbon Creek incident of 1956 on Parris Island.
None of his peers have been charged with it.
It's the Marines. There is a difference between abuse and training. This guy somehow is being made a scapegoat with the other knuckle-head.
I've no doubt that other DIs have been faced with other knuckle-heads and somehow managed to deal with them within the restrictions placed on them. And still turn out excellent marines at the same time. Or don't you agree?
It's their job to get them ready for COMBAT. Stress and violence, with the ability to respond without questions to orders at ALL TIMES and act as one cohesive unit is the key to the Marine success.
Tens of thousands of Marines seem to have fared very well in combat without these kinds of tactics being used. Are you suggesting that they would have been better marines if they'd been beaten in boot camp first?
Now I'm not defending these guys, but please don't think that instilling fear and getting somebody's attention is the same as abuse. It's all about context and situation
Well, yes you are defending these guys. And you're implying that somehow not being able to beat your recruits with a flashlight leads to Marines not ready for combat. I suggest that is far from the truth.
All these tails of beatings at Paris Island suffered by former boots are amusing, but bring up a question. Does the fact that the Marines have modified boot camp and forbidden these kinds of actions mean we've had lesser Marines as a result?
Well apparently the Marine Corps frowns on "love taps" delivered with a flashlight. Hence the charges. And if memory serves there were howls of protest at the DI being charged for the Ribbon Creek incident with a lot of people saying that such tactics were also necessary for preparing Marines for combat. Some how the Corps has managed to stagger on for 50 years and turn out competent, disciplined Marines without the need to drown a bunch of them at the time. I imagine they'll continue to do so without administering "love taps".
There are different ways to do this, and psychological terror and cooperative abuse (where you make them abuse themselves with exercise and sleep deprivation or cleaning) are just as effective as knocking a divot out of a recruits head with the butt of an M-16 or a flashlight. My drill instructors had me so scared I couldn’t shit for two weeks and I still remember every word they told me because I lived in fear while in their presence; but it takes more skill to do that with words and indirect action than just stepping forward and striking.
Kids who have parents who hit them may well be well behaved, but not all well behaved children have parents who hit them.
But I was Air Force, but the F do I know about Marines? My Drill Instructor was a former Marine. He said “because there is no war on they say I can’t hit you, but if a war starts tonight, I’ll be whipping your ass tomorrow.” I never prayed so fervently for peace.
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