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To: kingu
Here is an excerpt from remarks made by The John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University, Dr. Walter E. Williams, recently to a standing-room-only crowd of students, faculty, and guests at Hillsdale College's Constructive Alternatives Seminar:

"...Keep in mind that a working definition of slavery is that you work but do not have any rights to the fruit of your labor. Taxation and regulation constitute confiscation of some or all of the freedom to own and use property. This confiscation has reached unprecedented proportions. In 1902 expenditures at all levels of government totaled $1.7 billion, and the average taxpayer payed only $60 per year in taxes. In fact, from 1787 to 1920, federal expenditures never exceeded 4 percent of the Gross National Product (GNP), except in wartime. Today federal expenditures alone are $1.8 trillion - almost 30% of GNP - and state and local governments spend over a trillion more. The average taxpayer now pays more than $8,000 a year, working from January 1 to May 8 to pay federal, state, and local taxes. In addation to the out-of-pocket cost, Americans spend 5.4 billion hours each year complying with the federal tax code-roughly the equivalent of 3 million people working full time. If it were employed in productive activity, the labor now devoted to tax compliance would be worth $232 billion annually. The federal cost of hiring 93,000 IRS employees is $6 billion. If these Americans weren't fooling around with the tax code, they could produce the entire annual output of the aircraft, trucking, auto, and food processing industries combined..." Emphasis added

I gess Dr. Williams doesn't know what HE is talking about either!

58 posted on 02/25/2008 2:00:38 PM PST by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: Bigun
The average taxpayer now pays more than $8,000 a year, working from January 1 to May 8 to pay federal, state, and local taxes.

I repectfully disagree with Dr. Williams on this point. We are constantly paying federal taxes with all the embedded taxes in every purchase.
61 posted on 02/25/2008 2:08:21 PM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Bigun
The average taxpayer now pays more than $8,000 a year, working from January 1 to May 8 to pay federal, state, and local taxes. [...] I gess Dr. Williams doesn't know what HE is talking about either!

43.4 million, over a third of all tax returns, resulted in the filer paying no taxes. In addition, since we're simply talking about federal taxes, any inclusion of local or state taxes has no bearing on the discussion, so, yes, I'd say he doesn't know what he's talking about either, at least in the context of this discussion as presented by yourself.

But, let's take this from the other direction - what FairTax does, aside from the largest re-distribution of wealth ever in this nation by giving out monthly pre-bate checks, brings 121 million people who presently have zero or negative tax liability. And it taxes their rent, their utilities, their gas - just about everything. And should it be implemented on January 1st, 2009, it will become the biggest political tool ever. Forget abortion, forget gay marriage - the winner will be whomever can state that they'd raise the monthly check the most, or reduce the at-register percentage of tax the most, who will 'reduce the taxes on milk by raising it on cigarettes', who will play the strongest game.

Yeah, the original author on this thread is right - this is the biggest liberal boondoggle ever. The supporters have a hope that this will bankrupt the US government and force a drastic reduction in government costs, but instead, it will be used to expand government to unprecedented levels. "But we can all have universal health care, just by raising the tax rate only one half of one percent in the months that end with 'y'. Will you say no to the children?"

70 posted on 02/25/2008 2:30:52 PM PST by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
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To: Bigun

5.4 billion / 220 million = 24.55 hours (by hand, without modern software)
232 billion / 220 million = 1,054.54 $/hr - I don’t think so.
There is no “average taxpayer”
$60 (1920) = $662.31 today’s dollars

Just to hit a few points.


103 posted on 02/25/2008 5:41:50 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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