“Think carefully before blaming the pills for whatever happens. “
I under no circumstances have ever said that someone on SSRIs or any meds should stop taking them. I believe the man who shot up NIU should have stayed on his meds. I never said otherwise.
I also believe that, when his depressive symptoms first started being recognized, he and those who were helping him (hopefully he went to someone; someone was prescribing SSRI, and he stayed in a mental facility) should have worked with him, for hours a day if necessary, to develop the coping skills, attitude, and habits that really can help lift a person out of depression.
Because “going off” of coping skills, good attitude, and healthy habits wouldn’t have dropped him into a homicidal rage. “Going off” meds often will. It is really better not to get dependent on the meds if at all possible.
It reminds me of the whole Ritalin plague. You have children in your classroom who are defiant, noisy, boisterous, display nervous ticks, get aggressive, won’t cooperate. You can:
1. Spend hours developing relationships with them, punishing bad behavior, rewarding good behavior, making sure they get some exercise and decent nutrition, and plenty of rest, having them get involved in positive things were they can strengthen their self control -
2. or you can give them Ritalin.
The Ritalin “works,” I guess, for a while, but have you dealt with the problem, really?
Now, if you spend a few years working with a severely depressed person, and there is no result, no result, no result, or they get worse, then sure, I’d say, try meds. Maybe they can have a halfway normal life.
But no one seems to want to invest the time or the effort. And when I suggest that we do, I am called (by other posters) laughable or uninformed.
I also believe that, when his depressive symptoms first started being recognized,
Gun laws stronger, but not foolproof ("he had stopped taking prescription medicines for anxiety.") A poster on that thread said stated that a Chicago paper, I believe the Sun-Times, IIRC, said he was taking Prozac.
Making Sense of the Great Suicide Debate
This thread has 5 links from the professional literature and 2 links for the general public about the adverse effects of SSRIs. You can learn about the serotonin syndrome that can be caused by SSRIs and the SSRI discontinuation syndrome which may have occured at NIU. I'm a family practice doc who happens to have an interest in adverse drug reactions, privacy and the Second Amendment. I find the downplaying of the most serious reactions, killing and suicide, by the drug makers outrageous. According to a book reviewer, Dr. David Healy emphasized that, "depressives don't commit mayhem."
Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law
Healy is one of the co-authors.
“But no one seems to want to invest the time or the effort. And when I suggest that we do, I am called (by other posters) laughable or uninformed.”
Maybe they are right. You do seem rather Pollyanish in your approach to “fixing” severely screwed up people by non-medical means. A lot of the mentally ill won’t admit that they even are and don’t seek help. Others can’t afford help and long-term care, even if it were available. The “system” in this country isn’t set up for long-term care. Partially because of the libs back in the 60’s saying throw open the doors of the institutions and leave all the crazies out onto the streets, they have their civil rights you know; that and “privacy rights”, thus allowing those crazies to roam the streets with you and I. Without meds, many of them would be roaming those streets as a danger to both themselves and others, such as the Northern Illinois guy.
You sound like Tom Cruise, like no meds should be used at all. This coming from a guy that I personally think is a tad addled in the brain himself. He could use some. Granted there has been overmedication (ritalin being one example as you say) in some areas. However, there again, the problem is that it is easier to pop a pill down a kid’s throat than deal further with a problem child. Who’s going to deal with the kid? In most families now both parents are working, and you can’t turn the clock back on that. The schools can’t do long-term therapy. Their mission is to teach, not be shrinks. So who, the State or Fed gov’t? If one could do like in the olden days and institutionalize the severely mentally ill, and not let them back out on the streets for a long time or ever if too far gone, that would work. But who would pay for these institutions?
I say bring back Boys (or Girls) towns for problem children, and indeed institutionalize the severely mentally ill. Boys/Girls Towns could be privatized or gov’t run; same with the mental institutions. My guess is these would have to be gov’t run, because if privately run, it would have to be based on grant monies from the gov’t, or somehow the profit motive would have to be satisfied. Hence probably gov’t run. Just about anything would be better than the system we have now, which is no system at all; just leave the crazies back on the streets, along with the severe alcoholics or druggies.
And the mechanism for involuntary (mandated) incarceration in mental institutions would have to be strengthened. No more of this having to let them out in 3 days routine. There must be a way to commit an out of control mental patient for more than just a few days or weeks. The laws on this (created by liberals) would need to be changed. We need new long-term care facilities, and I don’t care how they come about as long as it happens. Otherwise, the situation will remain status quo, and the crazies amongst us will continue to wreak havoc on our society and themselves.