Replies

I Said: Don’t be insulting. Just because you call him Jesus doesn’t mean he is.

Don't be insulting? HAH! You sir have been nothing but.

Here is where the I'm rubber and your Glue arguments start.

U Said: The LDS Jesus was a being that had a beginning. The Biblical Jesus did not.

The Bible says he was born in Bethlehem...

U Said: The LDS Jesus is the second person of the ONE God. The LDS Jesus is one of many gods.

It is you who misunderstands, Jesus is one with his father, but it's not a oneness of substance as you unbiblically allege, it is a oneness as is used throughout the Bible, Adam and Eve Commanded to be one flesh, the Disciples Commanded to be one even as God and Christ are one, we have been commanded to be one with each other and Christ, and you think that God and Jesus' oneness is "of one substance, With that logic, I hope you are not allowed to interpret the Second amendment some day...

U Said: The Biblical Jesus died for ALL of our sins and His death completely and wholly purchases redemption and heaven for the believer.

On this point we agree completely.

I Said: The LDS says that our works determine which heaven we go to - the one where non-Mormons go (the lowest), the one where somewhat faithful Mormons go. The one where obedient Mormons go where they can aspire to godhood.

You have a limited at best understanding, this explanation of yours is entirely wrong.

U Said: Yes, Delphi, I know the guy in the Bible. You do not.

When is the last time you saw him? Joseph smith learned more about Jesus Christ in a few minutes in that grove than you could ever know.

U Said: I have degrees in both history and theology - so I’m well aware of the folks you speak of. The LDS’s historical claims are extremely poor to be generous.

An interesting defense, "your argument is poor, abandon it."

LOL!

Don't be insulting? HAH! You sir have been nothing but.
Show me where I have made a string of personal attacks on you. On your belief system, yes. But I have been rather factual in my statements and I have backed up what I have said. U Said: The LDS Jesus was a being that had a beginning. The Biblical Jesus did not.
The Bible says he was born in Bethlehem...
You know better than that. The LDS Jesus was born after God the Father who was once a man had sex with one of his wives in the planet near the star Kolob. The biblical Jesus IS God and never had a beginning as God. Period. Case closed. End of story. Mormonism has a false Christ that it preaches and trying to say "we're Christian" doesn't cut it any more than the evil kook in Central America saying that he is Christ cuts it.

U Said: The LDS Jesus is the second person of the ONE God. The LDS Jesus is one of many gods.

It is you who misunderstands, Jesus is one with his father, but it's not a oneness of substance as you unbiblically allege, it is a oneness as is used throughout the Bible, Adam and Eve Commanded to be one flesh, the Disciples Commanded to be one even as God and Christ are one, we have been commanded to be one with each other and Christ, and you think that God and Jesus' oneness is "of one substance, With that logic, I hope you are not allowed to interpret the Second amendment some day...
Number one, notice how you frame your arguments. I am framing them "the LDS church teaches" You are framing them "You [personally] don't understand". That's the difference between making it personal and discussing a belief. That said, Scripture says:

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God." (John 1:1)

Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (Isa. 7:14).(Which means God with us)

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -Isaiah 9:6

Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hands and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God' " - John 20:28

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."Colossians 2:9 (All the fulness of deity)
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;- Titus 2:13

From these verses and many more we can see that Jesus was indeed God. Not akin to God. Not one in thought with God, but very God come in the flesh. Of course, LDS has no problems with Jesus being a god. The problem is really in the polytheism of the LDS. The LDS teaches and has taught from its inception the concept that Jesus is one of MANY gods and is a separate god from god the father. This is biblically wrong. See the following:

Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39

" See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." Deuteronomy 32:39

"Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears." 2 Samuel 7:22

"That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else." 1 Kings 8:60
" O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears." 1 Chronicles 17:20

" For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?" Psalm 18:31

"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Isaiah 43:10

"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" Isaiah 44:6,8

"For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isaiah 46:9

"As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Cor 8:4-6
"Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

The CLEAR teaching of Scripture is that there is only one God. Since there are 3 persons worshipped as God in Scripture (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) then we believe by faith the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. To say there are many gods is biblically false. To say we may someday be gods is not only biblically false but it is to perpetuate the lie that Satan told Eve in the garden. God is the Only God and Jesus is his eternally pre-existent Son. One in nature and essence with God the Father and the Spirit. 3 persons. One God. Don't understand it? Then join the club. God is far greater than we could ever fully grasp and we see through a glass darkly. We aren't meant to fully understand and if we do, our god is too small.

The LDS says that our works determine which heaven we go to - the one where non-Mormons go (the lowest), the one where somewhat faithful Mormons go. The one where obedient Mormons go where they can aspire to godhood.

You have a limited at best understanding, this explanation of yours is entirely wrong.

Explain to me where it is wrong. Can a nominal Mormon go to the Celestial Heaven and become a god? Can a non-Mormon do so that was never baptized into the Mormon church? Never tithed to the Mormon church? Please, show me where I'm wrong on that. Doctrine and Covenants 88:22 says ""For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory." In other words, he who doesn't follow the Mormon rules doesn't get the highest glory. Mormon President Joseph Fielding Smith taught that the most important part of our existence is right here and now and what we do with our time here. For, our life here "would either give to those who received it the blessing of eternal life, which is the greatest gift of God, and thus qualify them for godhood as sons and daughters of our Eternal Father, or, if they rebelled and refused to comply with the laws and ordinances which were provided for their salvation, it would deny them the great gift and they would be assigned, after the resurrection, to some inferior sphere according to their works" (Doctrines of Salvation 1:69). And 12th Mormon President Spencer Kimball speaks of the finality of what "sphere" we end up in according to our works - "No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right."

So again, if I am wrong - please show me. From your scriptures and past Presidents voices, it appears I'm dead on right.

U Said: Yes, Delphi, I know the guy in the Bible. You do not.
When is the last time you saw him? Joseph smith learned more about Jesus Christ in a few minutes in that grove than you could ever know.
Which version of the story are we talking about? The one he spoke of in 1832 where his Bible study spurs him to wonder which religion is true, or the one 1838 version where it was a non-existent revival that spurred him to ask the question? The 1832 version where just the son appears to him? Or the 1838 version where both the Father and the Son appear to him? Or the version his mother Lucy told where it was an angel appearing to him? Maybe it is one of the other 6 versions of the vision out there. This Youtube video explains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPpG4SZxlw

U Said: I have degrees in both history and theology - so I’m well aware of the folks you speak of. The LDS’s historical claims are extremely poor to be generous.

An interesting defense, "your argument is poor, abandon it."

Okay, Archaeological evidence contradicts Mormonism. DNA evidence contradicts Mormonism. Biblical evidence contradicts Mormonism. ANd, Historical evidence contradicts Mormonism. It is up to you whether or not you abandon it.