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To: ovrtaxt

Google Earth does not show you the extent of light pollution, and as such is totally inappropriate for assessing its environmental impact. To evaluate its true impact I suggest you look at satellites images of the Earth at night. Then you will see that most of eastern North America, Europe, the Middle East, India, and the Far East are lit up. The effect of an illuminated city extends well beyond its borders. For example, the glow of Dublin can be detected from North Wales.

I’m not denying some lighting in cities is necessary, but the technology is available to mitigate its adverse effects. This technology has been around for at least twenty years, so there is no excuse not to have implemented it.

“When I install a light outdoors, I can come back the next day and indeed, there are lots of dead moths on the lens and on the ground near the fixture. I can clean them up and come back the next day, and there they are again. It never stops.”

Well, you’ve just proved my point, haven’t you? So your light is sucking up the insects in your neighbourhood, along with those of everyone else who has a light and leaves it on all night. This and along with all the other lighting in a city will have a significant effect over decades of time. And this is exactly what has been seen. Many species have shown significant declines with concomitant effects on higher order consumers that can’t be denied. And you cannot blame it all on habit destruction or pesticides.

If you are leaving your light on all night, then you’re part of the problem. Get it motion operated. Then your light comes on only when needed, and it won’t do any harm, and you won’t be wasting energy either. The energy wastage I have seen caused by people leaving outside lights on all night (and during the day for that matter), is appalling, especially as motion operated lighting is, and has been readily available for years. Failure to apply it just demonstrates ignorance on the part of some householders and the retailers who provide lighting. For my part I don’t have any outside lights, nor do I see the need.

Why the need for pyrethrins? You won’t just be killing mosquitoes. A simple mosquito repellent would be better. If they are a problem inside the house, sleep under a net. I do.

“Your debate tactic is a losing one here. If you want to criticise lighting, do it from an energy use standpoint, or from a bad design standpoint. The insect angle is absurd.”

No it’s not. And I have been criticising badly designed and unnecessary lighting. I will give no quarter there. Outdoor lighting should only be used sparingly, on a needs must basis, when needed, where needed, and in the correct amounts.


46 posted on 07/02/2008 4:18:45 AM PDT by Colin Henshaw
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To: Colin Henshaw

Colin, I am a professional lighting designer. I fully understand the availability of full cutoff fixtures and the desirability of dark sky mandates- by which I abide. I also have that sat photo on my computer- I’ve used it as wallpaper in the past. If anything, the Korean peninsula is the most telling part of the pic. The absence of light in NK says more about politics than lighting design- but I digress.

As for bugs, have you ever been to FL? It’s basically a glorified swamp. Come over sometime and walk around our lake at night. Good luck, you’ll need it. You’ll be begging for pyrethrin.

As for people leaving their lights on, if they have the money to pay the bill, who are you or I to tell them to stop? I design for the customer- they are my employer, and I’ll do what they pay me to do. I use the most efficient and effective source I can, but ultimately, they will do what they want with the system they’ve paid for. Freedom is more important than bugs. Sorry, it just is. People die for freedom, they dont die for insects. And if they want to exercise their freedom in what you consider to be an irresponsible way, that’s your problem. Don’t make it theirs.

This is the genius of the environmental movement- it allows people to shepherd others around out of some phantom crisis that will kill us all- allegedly. A perfect excuse to be a control freak.


47 posted on 07/02/2008 4:40:24 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (This election is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if McCain wins, we're still retarded.)
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To: Colin Henshaw; ovrtaxt
Google Earth does not show you the extent of light pollution, and as such is totally inappropriate for assessing its environmental impact. To evaluate its true impact I suggest you look at satellites images of the Earth at night. Then you will see that most of eastern North America, Europe, the Middle East, India, and the Far East are lit up. The effect of an illuminated city extends well beyond its borders. For example, the glow of Dublin can be detected from North Wales.

Go live in North Korea. If you look at a night time satellite map you can see they have almost no light pollution. A "man" like you could do quite well filling his belly with grass and tree bark, just like the locals.

And best of all you can live under benevolent Marxists, just like you!

76 posted on 07/12/2008 3:35:25 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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