Posted on 02/06/2008 1:59:59 PM PST by TSchmereL
After seven years of watching and fighting against Americans who wish to see the country suffer so that they can get at George Bush, the last thing I wanted or expected to see was conservatives saying they would rather see the country suffer than support John McCain over Clinton or Obama, so that they can "get the blame."
A retreat before victory is assured in Iraq cannot be undone in 2012. And mandatory, single-payer, universal health care, once established, will not EVER go away either.
I am not impuning anyone's motives. I believe I have a reasonable understanding of principled behavior. But if your goal is to see the country punished because---
You can stop right there. If your goal is to see America punished, and her people open to attack and/or ruined financially in order to prove a point for any reason, then you do not deserve politial power nor are you likely to achieve it. A party is a compact. It is, essentially, a pleage of mutual support. As a matter of fact, it's nothing more or less than a promise.
A political party is a series of personal compromises in order to achieve a goal unattainable by the perfect political party: one's own self. If McCain is the legal and lawfully selected nominee, and Republicans decide to walk away from their party in droves, what makes them think they will be able to count on those who, you know, actually went out and voted Republican either joyfully or through clenched teeth, in order to prevent The Deluge?
If your idea of any political party is one that means unlimited support for your personal values if your candidate is ascendant, while you in turn owe none to those you dislike or even disdain, you might be in for a surprise in future elections.
Speaking as a FredHead myself, I am bitterly disappointed that I did not even have the chance to vote for a man I admired, and am more distraught still to find myself in the position I now occupy. I see many, many worrisome things about John McCain, but being tough on terror and spending are not among them. We could do worse. Two names come to mind immediately.
Much is said about principles, and since I am not able elect anyone BY MYSELF I have entered into this pact with the group of people who I feel most comfortable with in terms of values. If they, as a body, choose a candidate who is not my first, second, third or fourth choice, then I can look to the Democrats. There I find views so antithetical to everything I believe that I realize there is indeed something to this idea of party loyalty.
And I cannot help but think that such a kind and practical man as Ronald Reagan would be amazed that his name was being invoked so frequently in order to insure that the most liberal, socialist, power-hungry statist in my living memory is elected. I'm glad he's not here to see this because if he knew the consequences of what was being done in his name, I believe it would kill the man.
McCain didn’t care about spending offsets when he voted against the tax cut. His one and only argument was that they “favored the rich.” Now....of course, he has revised history to fool conservatives who are all too willing to be fooled.
No spite or sour grapes here...Where u McCainiacs get that from is beyond me??..(Thats a McCain trait BTW...witness his temper tantrums...his legislation against the conventional GOP)..if my stand on principles is considered to be a “political anarchist”..then so be it..
i understand compromise is part of politics...but u don't compromise your core beliefs and the mission for a hollow perceived victory...Thats exactly what liberals do... (If you were negotiating for a loaf of bread...compromise would be a 1/2 loaf of bread....not a full loaf of cat $hit)
and you're right that conservative dont quit...theyfight to bring more voters to the same position...(Thats the mission of this site and my mission with you)
as for rational arguments and facts...McCains record speaks volumes..(Are u for McCain-Fiengold...McCain-Kennedy and all his other anti conservative votes and principles??...if u see him as 80% conservative on the issues, i suggest u start using weighted grades on the IMPORTANT ones)
As to the troops...id be glad to fill them in on what happens when “wet finger to the winds” politicians run wars instead of generals...or where hand wringing citizens “feelings” trump principles...I have 2 yrs experience in VN where 58K died...I feel i can speak to that..
As to false conservatism...if you’ll compromise to the left at every turn and never draw a line in the sand...its just a question of time before u wake up one day and find yourself in the liberal camp...(you can spend your time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic thinking your doing the right thing...it might prolong the agony of discovering your eventual fate
As to taxes i.e. MONEY...thats a whole other ball of wax....When the congress violated Art 1 sec 8 of the Constitution in 1913...the die was cast...thats another dirty lil secret where “We the people” are dutifully rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...Heres something to ponder ..written by Sir Allen Greenspan himself http://www.321gold.com/fed/greenspan/1966.html Let me know what u think..I enjoy rational arguments
I am not happy about McCain, but I will vote. So save the McCainiacs shtick for someone else. You can feel frustrated and you can feel angry, the point remains if you decide to just sit this one out you may never have an opportunity to bring people over to the conservative table. With every entitlement enacted the just become tougher to take away. I appreciate your service, as a retired military person myself, I say thank you, but Vietnam is long ago and just like McCain that gives you absolutely no right to a higher argument or to no abandon our troops today.
Oh please.
Here’s a good one. When was McCain ever loyal to the Republican party? In 2006 he did whatever he could to destroy it to get to this point, now he and his supporters ask for our loyalty.
What makes them think McCain would be better on terrorism than democrats? closing down Guantanamo and giving terrorists criminal trials, forbidding interrogation? Open borders?
McCain/Kennedy
McCain/Feingold
McCain/Lieberman
No on Bush Tax cuts
Consideration of VP for John Kerry
Keating 5
Global Warming
NY Times endorsement
LA Times Endorsement
Opposed federal gay marriage (before realizing the consequences)
Pro choice(before realizing the consequences)
McCain’s the candidate of amnesty for illegal aliens.
McCain supports embryonic stem-cell research.
McCain has said “I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade”.
McCain opposed the Bush tax cuts, and refuses to sign the “No New Taxes” pledge.
McCain supports legislation that would increase taxes on energy.
McCain was the ring-leader of the Senate “Gang of 14”, which kept the then Senate Republican leadership from ending the ability of Democrats to filibuster Bush’s judicial nominees.
McCain supports legislation to grant due-process rights to terrorists.
McCain sponsored the inept legislation which restricts free-speech rights of those involved in the political process, (the McCain/Feingold bill)
McCain called evangelical-conservatives an “evil influence” on the Republican Party.
McCain - member of the Keating 5 that caused a bipartisan scandal during the S&L meltdown.
McCain had a recall election ran against him by the conservatives in Arizona.
McCain blocked the investigation into whether Viet Nam and the Soviets were still holding over 600 of our missing POWs in 1990.
(Credit to the two FReepers that put those lists together, I don’t recall which but they know who they are and they don’t drink the kool-aid.)
A detailed history of his voting JUST on amnesty…
2007: Voted on Senate floor in favor of motion to invoke cloture on S. 1639, a bill to reward illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain voted in favor of a second motion to invoke cloture on S. 1639 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Edward Kennedy), a bill to reward up to 6 million illegal aliens with amnesty. The motion to invoke cloture would have limited further debate on the bill and moved it to a final vote. A vote for cloture was effectively a vote in favor of passing the amnesty-guestworker bill. The motion to invoke cloture failed by a vote of 46 to 53.
2007: Voted on Senate floor in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens Sen. McCain voted in favor of a motion to invoke cloture on S. 1639 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Edward Kennedy), a bill to reward illegal aliens with amnesty. The motion to invoke cloture was a move to initiate debate on the proposal and limit further discussion of amendments to a previously-agreed upon set of proposals — thus a vote against cloture was effectively a vote in favor of killing the amnesty-guestworker bill. The motion to invoke cloture passed by a vote of 64 to 35.
2007: Voted on Senate floor against reducing amnesties for illegal aliens Sen. McCain voted in favor of a motion to invoke cloture on the substitute amendment (SA 1150) to S. 1348, a bill to reward illegal aliens with amnesty. The motion to invoke cloture would have ended debate on the proposal and limited further discussion of amendments to a previously-agreed upon set of proposals — thus a vote in favor of cloture was effectively a vote in favor of the amnesty-guestworker bill. The motion to invoke cloture failed by a vote of 45 to 50.
2007: Voted on Senate floor in favor of amendment to create a disincentive to apply for amnesty Sen. McCain voted in favor of the Cornyn Amendment (SA 1250) to S. 1348 to discourage applicants from applying for amnesty by eliminating the provisions protecting the confidentiality of the information contained in amnesty applications and, instead, requires the sharing of application-related information upon the request of a law enforcement agency, intelligence, or national security agency, or DHS component when requested in connection with a duly-authorized investigation of a civil violation. The Cornyn Amendment passed by a vote of 57 to 39.
2007: Voted on Senate floor against amendment to bar certain criminals from amnesty Sen. McCain voted against the Cornyn Amendment (SA 1184) to S. 1385 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Harry Reid) to bar criminal aliens from receiving amnesty. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff has estimated that 15% of illegal aliens are criminals. The Cornyn Amendment failed by a vote of 46 to 51.
2007: Voted against amendment to strip amnesty provisions from S. 1348 in 2007 Sen. McCain voted against the Vitter Amendment to strip the amnesty provisions from S. 1348 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Harry Reid). The Vitter Amendment failed by a vote of 29 to 66.
2007: Cosponsoring S. 774 to reward illegal aliens with amnesty S. 774 (whose main sponsor is Sen. Dick Durbin) would reward illegal aliens under the age of 21 who have been physically present in the country for five years and are in 7th grade or above with amnesty. An estimated 500,000 to 600,000 illegal aliens would qualify for this amnesty.
2007: Cosponsoring S. 340 to grant amnesty to illegal aliens (AgJOBS) Sen. McCain is a cosponsor of S. 340 (whose main sponsor is Sen. Dianne Feinstein) to encourage more illegal immigration by rewarding certain illegal aliens who work in agriculture with amnesty.
2006: Voted on Senate floor in favor of S. 2611 to reward illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain voted in favor of final passage of S. 2611 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Arlen Specter) which includes an amnesty (both immediate and deferred) for 10.2 million illegal aliens (6.7 million illegal alien workers and 3.5 million illegal alien spouses and/children). S. 2611 passed by a vote of 62 to 36.
2006: Voted in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens Sen. McCain voted in favor of a motion to invoke cloture on S. 2611 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Arlen Specter) which includes an amnesty (both immediate and deferred) for 10.2 million illegal aliens (6.7 million illegal alien workers and 3.5 million illegal alien spouses and/children). The motion to invoke cloture passed by a vote of 73 to 25.
2006: Voted against amendment to reward 2 million illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain voted against the Feinstein Amendment to S. 2611 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Arlen Specter) to create an “orange card” that would allow an estimated two million illegal aliens to pay a fine, and after 6-8 years, adjust to Lawful Permanent Resident status. The Feinstein Amendment failed by a vote of 37 to 61 .
2006: Voted against amendment to kill amnesty provisions Sen. McCain voted against the Vitter amendment (SA 3963) to S. 2611 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Arlen Specter) to remove provisions authorizing the “earned legalization” and “agricultural worker” amnesty schemes that would grant amnesty to an estimated 16 million illegal aliens and their families (according to a May, 2006 study by the Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector). The Vitter amendment failed by a vote of 33 to 66.
2006: Voted against procedural move to reward illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain voted against cloture on SA 3424, a “compromise amnesty” proposal by Sens. Hagel (R-NE) and Martinez (R-FL). The purpose of voting against allowing a final vote on this proposal varied from Senator to Senator, with many of them favoring the proposal but not willing to bring it up without a lot of votes on amendments. At the least, those voting against cloture were insisting on a chance for opponents of the bill to make their case with amendments. The Hagel-Martinez proposal would reward illegal aliens with amnesty. S. 2611 includes an amnesty (both immediate and deferred) for 10.2 million illegal aliens (6.7 million illegal alien workers and 3.5 million illegal alien spouses and/children). The cloture motion failed by a vote of 38 to 60.
2005-2006: Cosponsored S. 2075 to reward illegal aliens with amnesty S. 2075 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Dick Durbin) would reward illegal aliens under the age of 21 who have been physically present in the country for five years and are in 7th grade or above with amnesty. An estimated 500,000 to 600,000 illegal aliens would qualify for this amnesty. The bill died in the Judiciary Committee.
2005-2006: Cosponsored S. 1033 to reward illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain was a cosponsor of S. 1033 to reward virtually all illegal aliens (except those with criminal records or terrorist connections) with amnesty. This could potentially reward 9 million illegal aliens with amnesty. This bill died in the Judiciary Committee.
2005: Voted in favor of amnesty for agricultural workers Sen. McCain voted to invoke cloture, a procedural move requiring 60 votes to limit debate and ensure a vote on the AgJOBS amnesty amendment for up to 3 million illegal aliens, introduced by Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID), to the Iraq supplemental spending bill. The Senate voted 53 to 45 not to invoke cloture, effectively keeping the amnesty off of the final bill.
2005-2006: Cosponsored S. 359 to grant amnesty to illegal aliens Sen. McCain was a cosponsor of S. 359 to encourage more illegal immigration by rewarding certain illegal aliens who work in agriculture with amnesty.
2003-2004: Cosponsored S. 1645 to grant amnesty to illegal aliens Sen. McCain cosponsored S. 1645 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Larry Craig) to encourage more illegal immigration by rewarding certain illegal aliens who work in agriculture with amnesty. This bill died in the Judiciary Committee.
2003-2004: Cosponsored S. 1545 to reward illegal aliens with amnesty S. 1545 would have rewarded illegal aliens under the age of 21 who have been physically present in the country for five years and are in 7th grade or above with amnesty. An estimated 500,000 to 600,000 illegal aliens would have qualified for this amnesty.
2003-2004: Cosponsored S. 1461 to encourage reward illegal aliens with amnesty Sen. McCain cosponsored S. 1461, to create a legalization process for almost all illegal aliens who will then be eligible for green cards after 6 years. Amnesty has been shown to increase rates of illegal immigration. The bill did not come to a vote.
2000: Voted against an illegal immigration amnesty. Sen. McCain voted against including an amnesty for illegal aliens from Central America in the Senate H-1B bill (S.2045). This not necessarily a vote against the amnesty, but rather a vote against including it in the H-1B legislation. The move to attach the amnesty failed 43-55.
1997: Voted for an amnesty to illegal aliens from Nicaragua and Cuba. Sen. McCain voted for a procedural move that helped allow the Mack Amendment to be included in S.1156 (the District of Columbia Appropriations bill). This amendment granted amnesty to illegal aliens from Nicaragua and Cuba and is expected to add close to one million people to U.S. population. 96 N/A N/A
1990: Voted for a bill that included an amnesty. Sen. McCain supported S.358 (whose main sponsor was Sen. Edward Kennedy), which provided an amnesty for up to 165,000 spouses and minor children of illegal aliens who were granted amnesty in 1986. Ultimately, the 1990 bill passed 81-17.
I’m writing in Duncan Hunter. McCain is a NUTJOB.
What makes you think “conservative judges are too difficult” McCain will appoint decent judges?
I suspect you could look forward to Ginsberg and Souter clones...
Thank you for a very respectful tone, good facts. My sincerest respect for your views.
As Tony Blankley pointed out in a recent column, moderate and liberals Republicans sat out the 1964 election giving Johnson a landslide victory. Only fours years later, Nixon won in ‘68 and then again in ‘72 .
Conservatives would do well to sit on their hands this election and let Obambi win. It wouldn’t take more than an election cycle for the dose of left wing policies to turn the electorate back to conservatives.
A very large percentage of people have their 401ks in the stock market and they won’t like the economy tanking. One terrorist attack would undo Obambi. And the bill presented to the tax payer for national health care, global warming, social security and medicare, will be a deal breaker.
Better liberal Obambi than a liberal republican.
“Conservatives would do well to sit on their hands this election and let Obambi win. It wouldn’t take more than an election cycle for the dose of left wing policies to turn the electorate back to conservatives.”
So, you think that we should ‘teach the American People a lesson’?
So, you think that we should ‘teach the American People a lesson’?
Well yea...the left has been breeding dissstisfaction, complaining about right wing incompetency. These delusions need to be punctured. A redo of Jimmy Carter/Obambi would do the trick.
Therefor....i ask your opinion on this article http://www.northstarwriters.com/dkk103.htm The ‘65 quote by Reagan says it all for me
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