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To: wintertime
Regarding public school attacks on Christianity, don't overlook that regardless that Justice Black wanted everybody to think that Jefferson's "wall of separation" somehow meant that the establishment clause applied to the states as well as to the federal government, Jefferson had also acknowledged that the Founders had written the 1st and 10th Amendments in part to reserve government power to address religious issues to the state governments. In fact, Jefferson had done so on at least three occasions. See for yourself.
"3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people..." --Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. http://tinyurl.com/oozoo

"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies." --Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378 http://tinyurl.com/jmpm3

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. http://tinyurl.com/nkdu7

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So by quoting Jefferson to help justify his scandalous interpretation of the establishment clause, Justice Black actually quoted probably the worst person that he could have quoted to help justify his dirty work.

Are we having fun yet? :^)

So the states have the power (10th A.) to authorize public schools to lead non-mandatory (14th A.) classroom discussions on the pros and cons of evolution, creationism and irreducible complexity, for example, regardless that atheists, separatists, secular judges and the liberal media want everybody to think that teaching such things in public schools is unconstitutional.

In fact, this post (<-click), although not directly addressing religion in public schools, tells in general how FDR's establishment of constitutionally unauthorized federal spending programs like Social Security arguably led to the c&s separation controvercies that our public schools are dealing with today.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, the people need to wise up to the federal government's scandalous ignoring of the 10th A. protected powers of the states, a consequence of FDR's dirty politics, particularly where the unconstitutional stifling of our religous freedoms are concerned. The people need to quit sitting on their hands and petition lawmakers, judges and justices who are not upholding their oaths to defend the Constitution, demanding that they resign from their jobs.

33 posted on 02/03/2008 9:57:15 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: Amendment10
So the states have the power (10th A.) to authorize public schools to lead non-mandatory (14th A.) classroom discussions on the pros and cons of evolution, creationism and irreducible complexity, for example, regardless that atheists, separatists, secular judges and the liberal media want everybody to think that teaching such things in public schools is unconstitutional.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are three issues here, as I see it:

1)We must demand that judges and legislators strictly interpret the Constitution.

2)Homosexuality must be fought both socially and legally.

3) Government schools are incompatible with freedom of conscience. They are the Marxists and homosexuals major weapon against Western Civilization, and for this reason must be shut down, and must be shut down!

The Constitution:

I agree with you that the Constitution must be strictly applied. States do have the right to have Bible studies, prayer, the Pledge of Allegiance, Christian Christmas celebrations,etc. This **must** be defended! If the rights of the states to do this is not defended, other areas of the Constitution risk attack. In the end, we are no longer a country governed by rule of law.

So...While I believe that the best strategy for opposing homosexuality is for parents to remove their own children, work for a massive school tax revolt, and shut down the government schools, I **do** believe state’s rights to have Christianity in the schools must be defended.

The Homosexual agenda:

The homosexuals are using two fronts of attack here: Social and legal. The homosexual agenda needs to be resisted on both levels.

If homosexuality is not forcefully resisted, legally and socially, a Christian will soon not be able to find and hold a job, attend college, rent an apartment,,etc,,because some homosexual somewhere might “feel” threatened. It has already occurred. It doesn’t necessarily need to be encoded in law, but merely through the social pressure that homosexuals can and are applying.

In the Parker case, personally, I don’t like seeing a small boy used to accomplish an adult’s social and legal fight against homosexuality. However,,,the homosexuals definitely aren’t shy about using children to fulfill their social and legal goals.

In the social fight against homosexuality, one of the very best maneuvers would be to shut down government schooling. The homosexuals need government schools for their indoctrination of the next generation of voters!

I am completely exasperated! When are Christians, and those who believe in rule of law and the sanctity of the Constitution, finally going to understand that the Marxists were right about schools! If we want the next generation of voters educated in the principles of the Constitution, then we **MUST** educate our own children and work to immediately shut down the government madrasses!

Government Schooling and Freedom of Conscience:

Regardless of whether the states have the right in our federal Constitution to have Christian teachings in the schools, there is a **fundamental** conflict between freedom of conscience, the human rights enumerated in the First Amendment, and government schooling.

If any state has included the human rights listed in the First Amendment in its state constitution, then these human rights should take precedence over any provision for compulsory government schooling.

On every government level, First Amendment Rights, should be considered basic human rights. Government schools are utterly incompatible with these human rights. Government schools ( under threat of police action) treat children like prisoners. Children are ordered to shut up, forbidden free assembly, forbidden exercise of their religion, forbidden the right of free press, and subjected to an educational indoctrination that can never be religiously neutral. (Geeze! At least prisoners are not preached to by government priests and priestesses.)

The following is an excellent essay explaining why government schools are unconstitutional on every level:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter9.htm

34 posted on 02/04/2008 5:29:55 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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