Posted on 01/29/2008 9:35:30 AM PST by forkinsocket
Beautiful, just beautiful.
God created man and then man created religion....hundreds of thousands of them........
could someone, ANYONE, please tell me what part(s) of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament?) are quote “a dangerous and bewildering experience” unquote ?
Atheism is just another one. Its Holy Books are no less filled with stringent rules designed by men for their own benefit than the others are.
We were playing baseball, I was in right field.
A high fly ball was hit to me. As I ran under it, I tripped, and the ball bounced off my head and to the ground.
After picking it up and throwing it to the second baseman, I muttered a loud "Jesus Christ".
Being an Altar Boy, and knowing that I had just committed a sin of great magnitude, I covered my head with my glove, waiting for the lightning bolt that was certainly going to strike me.
It never came.
It was then that I realized that GOD was very busy doing what GOD does.
These many years later ... I still believe that.
“Belief” that is neither fish nor fowl.
Belief in God without belief in His Order is, if not atheism, a refusal of God as effective as atheism.
If God exists I can’t imagine that He wouldn’t so order the universe that in it’s progress through space it would NECESSARILY impose a choice upon all, no less than gravity is imposed upon all, and thus winnow the wheat from the chaff (Evil from the Good). There is no middle position. You serve Heaven or you serve Hell, period. There is no moderation in Faith, you believe and follow or you don’t. (Which of course makes me an intolerant, evil, narrow minded fundamentalist)Ah well...
When one ‘belief’ is elastic it allows one to rationalize going in another direction when following would be a PITA or a trial.
So, you knowing nothing about my beliefs for instance, only that I’m an atheist, think that I’m serving the Devil?
Looks like somebody took an ax to your logic tree.
So, you knowing nothing about my beliefs for instance, only that I’m an atheist, think that I’m serving the Devil?
Looks like somebody took an ax to your logic tree.
If there is a God you MUST serve Heaven or hell.
If there is a God YOUR belief or lack thereof doesn’t matter. Where do you see faulty logic here? If you are an atheist and there is in fact a God then you serve hell. Does such reasoning in a Beliver surprise you? If so why?
No, I just thought Prostant beliefs say only evil people go to hell, not every non-Christian.
Second, how do I ‘serve hell’? If I am then at least can I get some back pay :) Anyway, so it doesn’t matter that I’m a good person, better then some professed Christians even? I’m not only going to hell but somehow I work for the Devil also?
The degree to which a Christian follows Christ (or a Jew the Torah) is the only thing that matters in their judgment. We are all judged ALONE. There are popes in hell there are “Christians” in hell there are “good persons” in hell.
Also it isn’t very likely that a person serving himself in matters of conscience and good is going to incidentally parallel God’s commands. He wouldn’t have had to command them if they could happen in a person entirely by accident.
In calling yourself a good person what is your reference? Why can’t I have a reference of my own that is a lot like yours but a little different here or there?
Pretty chaotic, actually. It’s bad enough that the Bible itself is “interpreted” eighty seven hundred billion ways. Add another million or so orders of magnitude to the chaos with entirely made up and personal standards of “Goodness”.
None of this can matter much to you if you don’t even believe in God. Frankly, back when I thought God was nothing more than a security blanket for scared little people' such debate faintly amused me---as I passed it by. However, as a point of logic, what I don’t get is what people imagine the utility to God is of a middle place between His own creation of Good and Evil. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Protestant beliefs say we're ALL evil people. Not one of us is good - not a single one. All the good works of someone even as good as Mother Theresa are but dirty rags in the eyes of the Lord. A very tough position to be in.......thank goodnes we have a Savior, if one just accepts him.
Ah, so that’s how you get into heaven, admit to yourself that you’re a piece of s*** and there’s nothing you can do about it except beg forgiveness for being born.
Seriously, how do y’all convert people?
The reference I use to call myself good is pretty objective, it’s roughly defined as how best I succeed in respecting the rights of other individuals. That means I never initiate the use of force against anyone unless they do so first. Apply that do politics, especially economics, and you can see why I’m a member here.
But I’m still not clear why I serve the devil? I get why you think I’m going to hell (which I find amusing) but not the serving part. Like I said I don’t violate anyone’s rights, last I heard that’s what the devil does.
ping
You’re not flashing to something very simple: what is “objective” in the absence of any final or monolithic good? What is the ruler you apply to arrive at your definition of good. Let me put it another way: The only thing keeping anyone who crosses me or in any way pisses me off alive is my respect for God. If we could somehow KNOW that God is infact an invention of man then why should I regard YOUR definitions as in any way meaningful? My conclusions are as sacred to me as anyone elses is to them. Why do you not then become a clump of cells to me? I got news for you if there is no God then that is all you are and you may have another opinion—but that is all it is-—and THAT is my point.
“”””But I’m still not clear why I serve the devil? I get why you think I’m going to hell (which I find amusing) but not the serving part. Like I said I don’t violate anyone’s rights, last I heard that’s what the devil does.””’
The key words are “If there is a God”. If there is a God and he is the author of all things and life is a test for us then it only follows that FROM GOD’S POINT OF VIEW 1.) Serving Him is HARD and 2.)You serve him or you serve hell. As I asked above: what is the utility to God of a third thing? Also: Why does any of this matter to you since if there is, as you believe, no God then there is no devil or hell as well?
On the contrary, it's a great position to be in if you are an early churchman writing your own rulebook and trying to make a fast pile of gold off the guilt of the uneducated. ;)
Ooops, I meant to comment on this as well.
“””’Like I said I don’t violate anyone’s rights, last I heard that’s what the devil does.””’””’
I have NEVER heard of the Devil violating anyone’s rights! This is a new one on me. The Devil as I understand him is the turning away from God’s Authority. All satan wants you to do is to simply choose his way.
We leave that to someone else.
bump for later
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