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To: dangus

We’ll have to wait for the Orthodox to explain the situation.


5 posted on 01/28/2008 7:58:07 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer; dangus; Kolokotronis; eleni121; kawaii
dangus: This is not the Patriarch, but he is the head of the Orthodox Church of Greece? [post #2]

NY: We’ll have to wait for the Orthodox to explain the situation

It's not simple! :)

Normally, an archbishop (metropolitan) is the head of an independent but not autocehphalous (self-headed) church. But that is way too simple! In the case of the Greek Church (Church of Greece), and the Orthodox Church of America (OCA), both are autocehphalous (the latter one is recognized as such by only the Russian Orthodox Church as far as I know).

They are both headed by a metropolitan and not a patriarch. In the case of OCA, it is because it is a relatively young Church with lots of Protestant converts and in need of developing more 'orthodox" mindset for the lack of abetter word (a PC term for "they are too Protestant" in their weltanschauung).

But, vis-a-vis their "mother churches" (MP, EPC) these Churches are both autonomous and independent, yet for specific reasons they do not have a patriarch in name only. Their metropolitans are "patriarchs" in everything but the title (they report to no one but their own synod).

A good example of independent but not autocehphalous church is the Orthodox Church of Japan, with its own metropolitan, jurisdictionally still reporting to the Patriarch of Moscow (PM). Another one is the Orthx. Church of Crete, headed by a metropolitan, yet jurisdictionally under the belonging to the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople  (EPC) in Istanbul, Turkey. These churches are autonomous but not independent.

The Church of Greece is a relatively recent creation (1833) which the EPC agreed to recognize after some time (1850). I am not sure about the reason for this division (since the EPC is Greek, and the Church of was always the Greek Church) ; however, the decision was not Greek, but rather German.

The Greeks don't have their own royal line but rather German royalty, which is the case with Bulgarians and Romanians. Perhaps our Greek friends and brothers, Kolo and eleni21 can shed some light on why the German regent tore apart the EPC and created the church of Greece, and why now that the German kings are gone, the two Churches are not reunited.

The only Orthodox people who have native royal dynasties are the Serbs in Serbia (the Karadjordjevich dynasty), and in Montenegro (the Petrovich dynasty). The Russians have a mixed lineage (for example, Catherine the Great was German).

The result of this artificial creation of the 'second Greek Church' was that it would have been inappropriate to have two Greek patriarchs, especially since, jurisdictionally Greece is split between the Greek Church and the Church of Constantinople, with pockets of EPC's jurisdiction scattered all over Greece, and the islands (aka 'new lands').

Thus the Greek Orthx. Church in America (officially known as : the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, GOARCH) belongs jurisdictionally to EPC, and not to GM, but this was not always the case.

In 1908, for some reason, the jursidiction was given to AG, then again in 1922 it was taken back by the EPC! In 1996, the Episcopate was split into separated episcopates with one for Canada, the US, and Central America.

Since the 1990's, especially after the deposition of the EPC-appointed primate Iakovos in 1994, the relationship between GOARCH and EPC have soured to put it mildly. A large group of wealthy and influential Greek laity (Kolo would know them) have been very active in litigations and other forms of "mild arm twisting" with the aim of gaining greater autonomy, even perhaps independence from EPC. Thus one of the latest big litigations started in 2004 regarding the EPC-initiated changes in the GOARCH Charter.

The American-minded Greek Orthodox Laity are suspicious of EPC's "papal" aspirations, so one can honestly say that the resistance to Iakovos was nothing short of a Greek Orthodox Boston Tea Party!

This is only my observation: you can't have two kinds of Greek Orthodox. The national identity of the Orthodox believers is tied to the Mother-country. Since Constantinople is no longer par of Greece or Roman Empire, and since there are two Greek-speaking jurisdictions, only the Church of Greece can claim to be Greek Orthodox. The EPC can't. Since the EPC does not represent any one country and culture, it should be referred to simply as the Eastern Orthodox (Catholic) Church—in fact the "Catholic" name is part of all Eastern Orthodox Churches but is not used to avoid an already confusing nomenclature of various Apostolic Churches. Thus GOARCH should be simply EOARCH. But, again, that it just my opinion. :)

Keep in mind that these are simply ecclesial issues; the almost 2000-year-old Divine Liturgy remains unchanged. It's a miracle!  :)

15 posted on 01/28/2008 11:52:26 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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