Posted on 01/22/2008 8:38:59 PM PST by neverdem
I just lost my reason for changing my registration from Conservative to the GOP in New York. My pick in that poll was none of the above. Slightly more than half on this forum prefers Romney as I write this.
I don't know why Fred didn't get more support, but when he got a little more than half of the support of Mike Huckabee in the South Carolina, that told Fred something. Huckabee was his main rival for the social conservative vote. I don't know what those folks in South Carolina were thinking when they voted for Huckabee, but a candidate who proposes to ban tobacco smoking and who criticizes the present administration for being too bellicose is not credible, IMHO, not to mention his otherwise populist politics.
When it comes to the general election, I'll most likely support the GOP's nominee, but if it is Romney, I won't be surprised if a lot of the "base" stays home. Some will stay home because of his religion. That's probably the worst reason not to vote for him, IMHO. Debra J. Saunders wrote today in the San Francisco Chronicle: "But don't tell me Romney is the true conservative in the race. His record reveals a solid conservative - when it has been in his interest to be one." Suffice it to say, the author barely starts to criticize Romney for all of the changes in his political positions over various social issues over the years. Should Romney win the nomination and in November, I expect as many disappointments as the current occupant of the White House.
I don't have to mention the other RINOs that are left in more ways than one. How did we get to this point where we are left with such a bunch of dismal RINOs? I don't know. The drive by media didn't help. But that is beside the point. The point is what do we do now. I say vote in the remaining primaries in a way so that we get a brokered convention. Considering what we are left with now, how could we do any worse?
Some might fear a brokered convention. I fear muddling along with any of these RINOs. David Freddoso wrote last month in National Review Online: "A brokered convention would allow for an airing of grievances for a party that has to decide its direction after a major loss." November 2006 was such a loss. Conservatives and small 'l' libertarians have just had another loss in this GOP primary season. A brokered convention could result in having a nominee we want to vote for, as opposed to voting against whoever the donkey is, after they have a nasty primary battle, or Bloomberg who's shaping up as the serious third party nominee. The left are eating their own. Fierce fighting over the minority vote may be the real surprise of the '08 Democratic race, with many blacks gravitating to Sen. Barack Obama and Hispanics to Sen. Hillary Clinton.
A brokered convention could take advantage of another fracture in the donkeys and appeal to a great many folks sick of endless illegal immigration while our entitlement and social programs are undermining our finances. Another third party effort from the right, e.g. Constitution Party, would be courting disaster even if Bloomberg draws votes only from the left and center, IMHO.
‘If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for . . but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”
“If this is too blind for your taste, consult some well-meaning fool (there is always one around) and ask his advice. Then vote the other way. This enables you to be a good citizen (if such is your wish) without spending the enormous amount of time on it that truly intelligent exercise of franchise requires.”
-Robert Heinlein
The GOP has been doing this for what, 4 election cycles now? They have developed the 'well, who else are they going to vote for?' syndrome. The fact that there are still many who will hold their noses and vote for the nominee tells me that the GOP is really not wrong in their assessment. I, for one, am done following the party line just so these arrogant idiots can win an election. Let the chips fall.
Thank you for your rant!
The rest of the line up stinks.
I’m praying for a brokered convention.
I’m serious, too.
Clearly the primary process does not work well -- the impetus for moving them ever earlier was so that this or that state would be able to "have a say" in who the eventual nominee would be.
Moreover, the egregious sound-bite charades of the so-called "debates" are utterly inadequate to properly educate the public on the positions and abilities of the various candidates. The media and party leaders are complicit in this, too.
I haven't got a good alternative to offer ... but that's no bar to pointing out the problems with the current system.
It is easy but wrong to invoke "the GOP," as if it were some entity aside from the people who are voting in these caucuses and primary elections.
If you want to bitch about the GOP, that's fine -- but if "the GOP" doesn't give you the results you want, perhaps it's because "the base" is those folks who have voted as they have, rather than the ones with whom you agree.
I understand what you want, but that is just not the way it is done. We will see if someone gets the majorit of delegates first before we go down that road. I would be concerned that our convention is not until September and only have six weeks to fight those very democrats. Up until September we will have the Republicans fighting each other. I just don’t see that being a good thing.
I’m glad to see that someone else is awake at this hour.
The GOP has been a disaster when it comes to winning elections in the past few years, even local ones. What is arising are a new breed of Republican and/or conservative who is willing to fight our enemies. The GOP has not supported these people and that is where the problem lies.
Time to put the old GOP down and to build up the new guys, the fighters.
I’m an independent but I could never vote for any Democrat in the presidential elections. They have betrayed our country for too long.
However, the Republicans have got to get some brains, guts, and united unless they will be relegated to “the ash heap of history.”
“The GOP has been doing this for what, 4 election cycles now? They have developed the ‘well, who else are they going to vote for?’ syndrome. The fact that there are still many who will hold their noses and vote for the nominee tells me that the GOP is really not wrong in their assessment. I, for one, am done following the party line just so these arrogant idiots can win an election. Let the chips fall.”
Why act as if there is some conspiracy here? People are voting for their preferred candidates, just as voters have done since voting began. Like you, I don’t care for most of their choices, but they do have the right to vote for whomever they prefer, just as you and I do. There is no smoke-filled room deciding these votes. Millions of individuals are making their own decisions. I honor that process, we all place our votes, and someone wins. That’s the system, and it’s not broken just because our preferred candidates don’t win.
Thanks. I am pretty sure I’ll be writing in a candidate and if that’s not possible, voting none of the above. No more voting for the lessor of two evils or Republican just to stop the Democrat. I’m a Conservative first, Republican second.
Good post.
“No more voting for the lessor of two evils or Republican just to stop the Democrat. I’m a Conservative first, Republican second.”
The second sentence contradicts the first.
A Conservative should always vote for the most conservative choice. This holds in the primaries, and in the general.
And who is the conservative in this election?
“And who is the conservative in this election?”
That’s a fair question.
That’s for you to figure out, not me. You may have noticed that conservatives don’t agree on who’s conservative. It’s your vote. One candidate in your primary will be more in tune with your Conservative principles than the others.
It will be the same in the general. Actually it will be much easier to make this distinction in the general.
My state (Colorado) votes Feb. 5. I will vote for the most conservative candidate (in my estimation) on that ballot. I will do the same in the general election. I will have done my duty. Then I will live with the results, whatever they are.
Good wishes to you for successful choices.
“Yes it is, and I believe they (the RNC, GOP) are ignoring us...”
It is the voters that are ignoring your candidates, not the RNC or the GOP.
The “us” in your comment is in a minority, and has simply failed to attract the number of votes to get your political results into first place.
That stems from the FACT nobody has “Sold” conservatism to enough voters, as Reagan did so well.
And politics is much more than mind numbing repetitive posting of checklists and spreadsheets regarding favored issues, so as to disqualify one, after another, after another candidate.
Candidates must persuade through personal appeal, raise money, organize volunteers that perform. Those candidates most favored on this site failed on most of those counts, regardless of their checklist idealogic perfection.
Joe sixpack voter often decides simply based on who he likes and trusts. The hatred of McCain on this site is at odds with his high standing in national polls, and when considered against democrats.
I try to deal with reality every day. I liked Thompson best on issues, yet realized early on he was not making his case. On astute writer observed he used paragraphs to express that which needed to be said in a sentence.
Now Romney and McCain look the strongest, and I like that because I prefer either of them, to the other two.
In the end I will vote in my primary Feb. 5th, and will vote in the general for the Republican because I want a Republican administration, with advisors and cabinet members, because that is far superior to the alternative.
And I accept that such a Republican administration might be very imperfect, yet would be better than the alternative.
I have never had a favorite, and should it come to a “brokered” convention, rest assured those making the deals and tradeoffs will be seeking the best chance to win the election.
And that should be the highest priority, for it best advances conservatism, however imperfectly and incompletely.
People need to read this again and again. Let us stop blaming "RINO", the RNC, the MSM, Bush, and so on, and look at the reality: there were several 'conservatives' running, none of them really attracted voters. Yes, surely MSM tried their best, but they are not omnipotent like in the past. If the candidates were strong, they would get conservatives' votes despite MSM efforts to confuse the voters. They weren't. I'm saying this as a former Fred supporter, BTW. Now I'm for Romney.
BUMP
Why will the brokered convention cause them to lose? McCain and Romney are just as likely to lose without it?
The primaries so far have been open to dems and independents. They have not been Republicans only. They include one issue evangelicals for Huckabee in Iowa and liberal New Hampshire for McCain. It is questionable whether there has been a significant sampling of genuine conservative voting so far. SC is only one state, also with an open primary system.
What needs to change is the primary system so that we have republicans only voting and not only certain not so conservative states having a false importance. This system skews the whole outcome.
Which way will Huckabee’s evangelicals break?
They might fund him until it’s obvious that one of the others will have the magic number of delegates going into the convention. If it looks like it won’t be a first ballot convention, they’ll give Huck a leg up for the VP nod.
Other than that, most Americans don’t realize that McCain is as liberal as he is. Except for his statements about disdain for evangelicals a few years ago, I think they’ll be inclined to go along with his strength on national security issues. Also, he has been more pro-life throughout his career than has Romney. Romney’s mormonism won’t help with a lot of them.
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