Anyone who wishes to understand evolutionary theory and see clearly stated arguments responding to several forms of creationism need only go to the talkorigins website and browse.
This debate is OLD. YEC and other forms of creationist arguments with evolution were THOROUGHLY disproven in the decade of the 90’s on that forum, and others. Now, you keep wanting to label me an anti-christian or something, which is patently ludicrous. I am a SIX-DAY CREATIONIST BIBLICAL TRADITIONALIST. But because you are unaware of how one can hold that position and still state that the evidence for evolution is clear, you think it’s not possible, so you assume I am a troll or disingenuous or something.
This is understandable, but it really would be quite more enlightening for you to try to understand my position, rather than getting foamy at the mouth about it.
The scientists on that forum understood my position, and although many of course did not agree with my theistic conclusions, they respected the fact that I was hnest enough to change my views on the evidence when confronted with clear science and common sense. I didn’t change my BIBLICAL position, I changed how I EXPLAINED MY BIBLICALISM. And that is the crux of the matter, is whether you handle the evidence honestly, and correctly, or whether you lie about the evidence and mishandle it. These guys on talkorigins are not slouches. they are JPL rocket scientists, some are professors of geology and biology.
In fact, they honored me (sort of) with a position as an “Professor of Metaphysical Presuppositionalism” or something like that, at their comedic By Bayou University (http://home.houston.rr.com/bybayouu/faculty.html).
Eventually, people are not stupid, they catch on, once they realize they have been getting taken for a ride, and by whom. They will see through your machinations, and verbage, and can pick out the sticks from the hay.
I’m not going to sit here and argue for evolutionary theory, my point is to show people sides of the argument they haven’t considered before.
By first focusing on some common sense issues, we can get further down the road than merely arguing the same old, same old.
Do not think for a second that I can’t do the other, but I think people first can benefit from other things I have to say other than throwing out a bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo.
Here’s another rock for you to much on:
The burden of proof lies with those going against the majority of science. If they can cook your food in microwaves ovens, and shoot rockets to Jupiter, they have an understanding of scientific methodology that is utilitarian, it works. Now, along you come and tell them that in several hundreds lines of independent evidence, they are wrong on the subject of origins. So, the natural question is, “where is your alternative theory?” Show us YOUR evidence to the contrary. Creationists have no evidence, not one shred. WHY?
The reason for that I explained in that abstract. That does not make me LESS a creationist. In fact, in my view, it makes me more of one.
Presuppositionalism, properly applied, is the ONLY method that makes any sense, and doesn’t mishandle the data, IMO.
The other methods are EASILY shot down.
[[This debate is OLD. YEC and other forms of creationist arguments with evolution were THOROUGHLY disproven in the decade of the 90’s on that forum, and others.]]
What a load of crap- While you have your own PERSONAL OPINION- tryign to present it as fact is intellectually dishonest- they have NOT been ‘thoroughly disproven’- they have been refuted using ASSUMPTIONS! - don’t present ASSUMPTIONS as FACTS Sonny-
[[Anyone who wishes to understand evolutionary theory and see clearly stated arguments responding to several forms of creationism need only go to the talkorigins website and browse]]
Oh for crying out loud- TalkOrigins is NOTHING but a propoganda site that is RIFE with LIES, Half-Truths, and outright Deceitful crap! TrueOrigins.com EXPOSES a great majority of their outirght LIES Sonny! While you are certainly entitled to your biased opinion- don’t presume to present htem as factual becuase I will show you siter after site which exposes the complete lies you are being fed on sites like TalkOrigins!
[[I am a SIX-DAY CREATIONIST BIBLICAL TRADITIONALIST. But because you are unaware of how one can hold that position and still state that the evidence for evolution is clear, you think it’s not possible, so you assume I am a troll or disingenuous or something.]]
Nope- I simply think you are either a genuione Christian who has been misled, OR that you are a self-professed Christian who doesn’t know God via the forgiveness of sins through accepting Christ as Savior- just like God said to do, and someone who is deceived in their own mind. Troll? No- Misguided and misled? Absolutely- especially when you cite sites like TalkOrigins as the basis for your beliefs! IF you REALLY wanted to know the truth, you would ceede the refutatiosn and exposures of TrueOrigins as they contain TRUTH Sonny, and don’t rely on lies and half-truths to make their case- The fact that TalkOrigins contains so many Blatant LIES should be enough for you and others to recognize it for the sham that it is, but you and others apparently would much prefere believing the lies- just like hte bible says folks like you would. Just don’t expect logical thinkers and seekers of the TRUTH, and seekers of ALL the scientific evidences (and not just the spoon-fed evidences) to buy into the lies.
[[This is understandable, but it really would be quite more enlightening for you to try to understand my position, rather than getting foamy at the mouth about it.]]
Look- if you’re simply misguided about hte science, then your position and opinion are excusable. If you’re simply unaware of the coutner arguments and the scientfic refutations to sites like TalkOrigins, then again, it’s excusable- however, If you are aware of such sites, and STILL deny the science that refutes sites like TalkOrigins, then no, I’m afraid your position is innexcusable, and folks like myself will expose thel ies perpetrated in this forum. IF you truly are a Christian, then you owe it both to yourself, and to others who read your material, to look OBJECTIVELY at ALL of hte eivdence. Doing so WILL expose Macroevolution for what it is- a LIE that is unfortunately being foisted on our chiuldren. The truth is out there Sonny, but going into it with an a priori belief that an impossible hypothesis is preferable to the truth nothing will ever convince you otherwise.
You make hte acusation that Christians are supposedly ‘promoting’ the PERSONAL BELIEFS of folks like Demski when we cite hteir SCIENCE, but it appears that the only one promoting their BELIEFS here is you. It appears you’re having difficulty understanding that their BELIEFS are not written in stone, and thusly are nothign but PERSONAL OPINIONS that quite simply can NOT be backed up sciejntifically.
[[I’m not going to sit here and argue for evolutionary theory, my point is to show people sides of the argument they haven’t considered before.]]
No- Apparently your point is to convince people that the lies being peddled on TalkOrigins are truth when infact they are not- While there are SOME scientific facts by reputable people on TalkOrigins- the MAJORITY of the ‘evidences’ presented are nothign but smoke and mirror LIES that rely on nothign but PURE ASSUMPTIONS, and the Site TrueOrigins exposes this very fact tiem and time again.
[[The burden of proof lies with those going against the majority of science.]]
Actually, no it isn’t- the burden of proof is on Macroevolution because it has been mandated as our official science in our schools- And so far- Macroevolution has NOT been able to show itself as a valid scientific process. Infact, it’s much much worse., the science itself argues directly agaisnt Macroevolution at every step of the supposed imaginary process.
[[If they can cook your food in microwaves ovens, and shoot rockets to Jupiter, they have an understanding of scientific methodology that is utilitarian, it works. Now, along you come and tell them that in several hundreds lines of independent evidence, they are wrong on the subject of origins. So, the natural question is, “where is your alternative theory?”]]
Nope- wrong again- Along I coem and show the evidnece that hsows IC and that shows that Macroevolution is wrong- I don’t ‘tell them’ anything- I simply present the evidences from their own scientific endeavors.
[[Show us YOUR evidence to the contrary. Creationists have no evidence, not one shred. WHY?]]
Yes we do- IC, Radio Halos, Evidence for a young earth, evidences for a theory about the universe and the design etc etc etc- Your ASSERTION is incorrect!
[[The other methods are EASILY shot down.]]
Hmmm- Do you more easily ‘shot down’ than everythign you’ve presented here?
Do yourself a favour and spend a couple of weeks on this site- you’ll quickly come to understand the magnitude of LIES you’ve been fed over on TalkOrigins, and you’ll begin to get a better understanding of just how science is lying to you, and the extent to which they go to cover up their problems as well. But I suspect you’re just like hte rest and will deny the evidences till the end.