“In reply, you are copy and pasting the work of others which is not responsive. If you do not want to converse, desiring to pontificate, I don’t have the time. If you want to converse, let’s.
But use your own words. Referencing source material is great. But copy and paste of the work of others? Unresponsive and really shows a lack of intellectual thought on your own part”
OK, let me get this straight. You tell me that copying and pasting the work of others shows a lack of intellectual thought on my part, but, isn’t that exactly what you did in post #126? Here’s what you copied and pasted:
“From religioustolerance.org on the pejorative use of the word “cult”:
>This definition is related to heresy — a concern of almost all large religions. These two groups often define as a cult any religious group that rejects some of the key historical Christian doctrines (e.g. the divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, the Trinity, salvation by faith, not works, etc.). Under this definition, the LDS church, Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches, Unification Church, Christian Scientists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Progressive Christianity, Quakers, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. would often be considered cults. Most people who identify themselves as Christians belong to one of these “cults.” Outside of evangelical Christianity, these “cults” are simply Christian denominations.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ldscult.htm";
See, this has been a typical tactic with you and your Mormon buddies. You tell us that what we say and do is wrong and unacceptable, but then you turn around and do the very same thing that you condemn us for doing. How do you spell hypocrite? T-O-R-T-D-O-G.
Let’s talk about this website where you got this ridiculous definition of ‘cult’. Did you even bother to look at that website to see what’s on there? It’s a site that promotes religious tolerance and their goal is to downplay all of the discrepancies between Christianity and false religion. Their theme is “can’t we all just get along?” I can’t believe that you would use this ultra-liberal website as your source to defend your position about the Mormon religion not being a cult. This website talks very negatively about Christian conservatives. That shows you clearly that they have their own biases. This website is a complete fraud, but I can understand how liberals or people who belong to false religions would want to use this as a resource. It’s clever of you to try to use a liberal site like this to defend your religion, but it also confirms what a lot of us have been saying about your religion. It’s full of lies, dishonesty and deception.
Here is a more honest definition of what a cult is:
Question: “What is the definition of a cult?”
Answer: Often in our minds we think of a cult as a group that worships Satan, sacrifices animals, and takes part in evil, bizarre, and pagan rituals. In reality, though, most cults appear much more innocent. The specific Christian definition of a cult is a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of Biblical truth. Or, in more simple terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to not be saved if they believe it. In distinction from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be Christian, yet denies an essential truth of Biblical Christianity.
The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. A denial of the deity of Christ results in Jesus’ death not being a sufficient payment for our sins. A denial of salvation by faith alone results in salvation being achieved by our own works – something the Bible vehemently and consistently denies. The two most well-known examples of cults are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. Both groups claim to be Christian, yet both deny the two key doctrines mentioned above. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons believe many things that are in agreement with and/or similar to what the Bible teaches. However, the fact that they deny the deity of Christ and salvation by faith alone qualifies them as a cult. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and members of other cults are “good people” who are genuinely seeking God and genuinely believe they hold the truth. Our hope and prayer is that many people involved in the “Christian” cults will see through the lies and will be drawn to the truth of salvation through Jesus Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html
Here are a list of a few mainline Christian denominations that say that the Mormon church is a false religion:
From the Lutheran Church website:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2239
Q. Are Mormons generally regarded as Christians, and how do their beliefs differ from those of the Missouri Synod?
A. The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is “of one substance with the Father.” This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching — thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled “Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?” the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are “not... one being” (21), but are “separate individuals.” In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body “of flesh and bone” (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.
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From the Catholic Church:
RESPONSE TO A ‘DUBIUM’
on the validity of baptism conferred by
«The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints»,
called «Mormons»
Question: Whether the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.
Response: Negative.
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From the Methodist website:
http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by self-definition,does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith. This conclusion is supported by the fact that the LDS Church itself, while calling itself Christian, explicitly professes a distinction and separateness from the ecumenical community and is intentional about clarifying significant differences in doctrine. As United Methodists we agree with their assessment that the LDS Church is not a part of the historic, apostolic tradition of the Christian faith.
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From the Southern Baptist website:
http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/BB_Mormons.pdf
* There’s too much information to copy here so go look at it yourself.
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There are many other denominations who classify the Mormon religion as a cult or false religion. I won’t copy and paste all of them lest you accuse me of being “intellectually dishonest” (for doing the same thing you did). Sheesh! Furthermore, you aren’t interested in facts about your religion. It’s too hard to defend. It’s a lot easier to just call me a Mormon hater and bigot, that way you don’t have to do your research. The truth is out there for you to find, all you have to do is google it. Seek and ye shall find. I really don’t think you want to find the truth—do you?
Regarding copy/paste. I have no problem with quotes and citations to authority during a conversation. That is helpful. But you didn’t do that. You entire pages of the work of others which was unresponsive to the question. I am here to discuss. I am not here to engage in copy/paste.
That’s intellectually lazy, and certainly is not a discussion.
>See, this has been a typical tactic with you and your Mormon buddies.
Ignoring the credibility of your accusation, you opine that all Mormons act alike. What other groups do you share similar prejudice to?
>Let’s talk about this website where you got this ridiculous definition of ‘cult’.
You ignore the opinion presented and attack the messenger. That’s intellectually dishonest and flawed. Aren’t you better than that?
>This website is a complete fraud, but I can understand how liberals or people who belong to false religions would want to use this as a resource. It’s clever of you to try to use a liberal site like this to defend your religion, but it also confirms what a lot of us have been saying about your religion. It’s full of lies, dishonesty and deception.
You claim the web site is a complete fraud. How about showing me that the definitions presented by the web site are fraudulent. Maybe even showing me an issue from the web site that you claim to be fraudulent.
>Here is a more honest definition of what a cult is:
In whose eyes? Yours?
YOu supply this definition:
>Often in our minds we think of a cult as a group that worships Satan, sacrifices animals, and takes part in evil, bizarre, and pagan rituals. In reality, though, most cults appear much more innocent. The specific Christian definition of a cult is a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of Biblical truth. Or, in more simple terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to not be saved if they believe it. In distinction from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be Christian, yet denies an essential truth of Biblical Christianity.
You do realize that the site your criticize as a “fraud” also includes this definition, attributing it to evangelical Christians?
The definition you provided misrepresents the LDS doctrine on Christ. We believe that Christ is a member of the Godhead, that he has no beginnning or end, and that it is solely through him that man can be saved. We believe that no amount of works is sufficient to bring man to God absent Christ’s atonement.
So your definition does not deem the LDS Church as a cult. Or, if SOLELY grace is required, then the Catholic Church is also a cult.
You were going to give me cites to “mainstream” Christian churches that claim the LDS Church is a cult. You did not do that. You brought forward a list of churches that claim LDS doctrine is wrong.
That is hardly a shock. If the other churches agreed with LDS doctrine, they would be LDS. And if Baptists agreed with Catholic doctrine, it would be Catholic.
So IF you define as a cult any church that you claim to be false (sounds like it), then it sure sounds like you one of the definitions provided by religioustolerance.org (that fraudulent web site, you remember). In essence, it posits that certain members of religious faith believe anything is a cult that doesn’t teach what their own church teaches. Sounds like YOUR definition, and it sounds like religioustolerance.org has nailed you.