Marine testifies he heard distant small arms fire after convoy was bombed in Afghanistan [MARSOC]

Associated Press via the North County Times ^ | January 10, 2008 | ESTES THOMPSON

[RedRover]

CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. -- The driver of a Humvee targeted by a car bombing in Afghanistan last year said Thursday he heard distant gunfire after the explosion, testimony that followed his comrades claims that they were fired upon.

Sgt. Heriberto Becerra-Bravo said the March 4 blast violently shook his vehicle, and the Humvee's gunner then began firing his M240 machine gun. Becerra-Bravo said he could hear small arms fire in the distance during pauses in the gunner's response.

"He was firing in controlled bursts. ... eight to 10 rounds at a time," Becerra-Bravo said.

Other servicemen testified Wednesday that the six-vehicle convoy was fired on after the bombing. They spoke as part of an unusual Marine "Court of Inquiry," a fact-finding proceeding that will recommend whether two officers will be charged with a crime.

Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission had concluded the Marines had fired indiscriminately at pedestrians and motorists in response to the bombing.

But attorneys for the two officers, Maj. Fred C. Galvin, the company commander, and Capt. Vincent J. Noble, a platoon leader, argue that the shootings were a justified reaction to a well-planned ambush, and that the death toll was lower than the 19 that the Army counted.

On Wednesday, one Marine in the lead Humvee testified that the ambush was so severe that crossfire cut trees branches as the convoy fled.

"You could see branches falling across the road ... all along our route," testified Sgt. Benjamin Baker. "We were taking semiautomatic small arms fire all along this road."

Another witness, Sgt. Brett Hayes, testified that the convoy was fired upon at least three times. Hayes said the gunner in his Humvee shouted that he was taking small arms fire from both sides of the road, and Hayes said he heard cracks of the bullets passing overhead.

"I'm 100 percent sure we were taking fire," Hayes said. "And I'm sure we had to kill some guys who were shooting at us."

Habib Sahar, a U.S. citizen working in Afghanistan as a translator for the military, also testified Wednesday that he heard gunfire in the distance after the car-bombing, a defense lawyer said.

[RedRover]

Previous thread: Marines Testify About Afghanistan Battle

For more, see keyword MARSOC.

_____________________________

There have probably been more arguments flaring amongst Freepers on MARSOC threads than any of the inquiries arising out of Iraq. To some extent, that just mirrors what's going on between the services in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Here's the story thus far in a nutshell.

After the shooting in Afghanistan, Army Lt. Gen. Francis H. Kearney III, then the commander of special operations forces in Afghanistan, ordered eight Marines back to Camp Lejeune for investigation and removed the rest of the company from Afghanistan. Trying to avoid another debacle like Haditha, Marine Lt. Gen James T. Conway ordered the Board of Inquiry, a device the Marine hasn’t used for 50 years. The Army is not judicially involved.

Maj. Gen. Dennis J. Hejlik, the commander of the Marine Special Operations Command, said he disagreed with Kearney’s decision because the Marines had responded appropriately. Conway publicly backed Hejlik by joining in his criticism of an apology by Army Col. John Nicholson, a brigade commander in Afghanistan, on behalf of the U.S. government. After issuing his apology Nicholson delivered solatia payments of approximately $2,000 to the families of 19 innocent civilians who died in the incident.

The decision about what to do after the two-week inquiry will be made by Lt. Gen. Helland, commander of U.S. Marine Forces Central Command who also will decide the fate of four Haditha Marines.

[RedRover]

Latest in the MARSOC inquiry ping!

[gardencatz]

Is this a new ping list? Will you add me? Wonder how long it will take the “close personal friend” of the Army Lt. General to pop in and say what a fine, upstanding citizen he is and the Marines are liars...because as we all know, a general would never, ever get it wrong.

Cindie

[Mr Rogers]

And a Marine would never lie...

[4woodenboats]

5 minutes, 52 seconds

[4woodenboats]

oops, I subaddiplyed that wrong - 4 minutes, 8 seconds before the 1st bucket of water was hoisted onto the thread

[RedRover]

Good to see you, Cindie. Yes, I thought of starting a separate ping list from Haditha. You’re in!

You know, when the history of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are written, I believe friction between Army and Marine doctrine and strategy will be a fascinating part of the story.

In the meantime, we have to keep an eye on the enlisted men who are at the foot of the Military Mountain where the sh*t always rolls down.

[xzins]

MARSOC is a component command of USSOC (USSOCOM). It includes the Army, Navy, AF, and Marine Special Operations Commands (MARSOC). The MARSOC is new and is in the process of being incorporated by USSOCOM. Therefore, the commanders of MARSOC answer to the Commander of USSOCOM, in addition to answering to the Marine Corps.

Confounding this is that DoD made USSOCOM a separate command able to operate independently within any regional command in the pursuit of USSOCOM’s national mission. They are still working out how to deal with the friction of crossing another command’s geographic boundaries without gaining that commander’s ire.

The Commander of USSOCOM is Admiral Eric Thor Olson, of fabled Seal Team 6 and of Mogadishu, Somalia, who saved US lives that day. Olson is a fair, beloved commander. LTG Kearney is his deputy, and was subordinate to him, I think, even prior to this as an MG when Olson was Deputy Commander of USSOCOM. There is every reason to believe that Olson would have been given input into whom his deputy would be.

MG Hejlik, MARSOC, reports directly to Navy Admiral Olson, which is not unusual for a Marine.

My sense is that the Board of Inquiry would not be taking place if Olson had not wanted it.

[Iron Munro]

If only this country gave muslim terrorists close scrutiny like this.

[RedRover]

And a Marine would never lie...

This is getting silly. You sound like a Democrat who insists that votes are rigged when the result doesn't go his way.

Doesn't seem to me that you have an open mind about the inquiry.

I said above that there are conflicts in doctrine between the Army and the Corps. If you start there, I think you'll see all this more clearly.

[Mr Rogers]

You make a valid point. I apologize.

[bigheadfred]

And a Marine would never lie...

Among other people...

[PsyOp]

Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission had concluded the Marines had fired indiscriminately at pedestrians and motorists in response to the bombing.

I'd be willing to bet the bullets pulled from those bodies were mostly 7.62x39mm.

[Mr Rogers]

If so, the inquiry will have those results - the bullets in all the wounded and killed went to the US. This was under investigation as soon as it happened.

[Girlene]

From the article...But attorneys for the two officers, Maj. Fred C. Galvin, the company commander, and Capt. Vincent J. Noble, a platoon leader, argue that...the death toll was lower than the 19 that the Army counted.

Here is a link from April 16 (over a full month from the original incident) in which the death toll was 6 at the blast site, 6 on the road, and possibly up to 35 wounded. This estimate was put out by the Afghanistan Human Rights Commission. When the initial incident was reported, I believe the death toll may have been lower. Now that everybody and their brother realizes their some major cash involved, the dead bodies start popping up.

Col. Nicholson indicated they paid for 19 deaths and 50 wounded in this link. Commander 'Ashamed' of Civilian Deaths. His reasoning was stated like this:

We defaulted to the higher number ... but feel confident that each of these people were in fact involved in the incident," he said.

HUH?

[PsyOp]

Im suprised to hear that any were recovered. Muslims like to bury their dead right away. One of the problems with the Haditha investigation was not being able to autopsy the bodies and see how those people were actually killed, or by whose bullets.

Who pulled the bullets out of the afghanni victims? Us or the people who wanted to see our guys hung. I hope we had some chain of control.

[Mr Rogers]

This happened immediately next to Jalalabad Airfield (now called FOB Fenty). It is the largest FOB in that part of Afghanistan. I heard the Army was there to help with the wounded, but I can’t say that for certain.

Col Nicholson defaulted to the higher number because it was good for calming that part of Afghanistan. We NEVER make a big deal out of payments - we just do it. Much cheaper than making enemies.

[PsyOp]

We NEVER make a big deal out of payments - we just do it. Much cheaper than making enemies.

Yeah, I remember that from being stationed in Germany. Local Germans made small fortunes claiming "manuever damage". I swear they would put things in the way of tanks and vehicles to run over just for that purpose.

"Mein Gott! your truck made a rut in my muddy, fallow field!" Next Spring he's driving a new tractor.

[Girlene]

Col Nicholson defaulted to the higher number because it was good for calming that part of Afghanistan. We NEVER make a big deal out of payments - we just do it. Much cheaper than making enemies.

Well, that may be all well and good to keep good relations with the Afghanis. But, HELLO, for goodness sake don't use the 19/50 numbers in a court of inquiry which could lead to court martials of Marines for 19 deaths/50 wounded.

[Girlene]

Here's what Sgt. Heriberto Becerra-Bravo had to say from reporter, Jennifer Hlad's notes posted here

"Sgt. Heriberto Becerra-Bravo was the first to take the stand Thursday.

Bravo, as he was referred to by the prosecutors and the defense lawyers, was driving the second vehicle in the convoy March 4, 2007.

Before the blast, Bravo said he saw a car, a van and two more cars coming toward the convoy. The gunners motioned for the vehicles to get out of the way, and while the cars did, the van kept coming toward them, Bravo said.

The van exploded in front of vehicle two. Bravo said he remembers “a giant redness with yellow.”

“I had no idea what was going on,” he said.

Bravo heard shooting, but said the only person he knows for a fact was shooting was Staff Sgt. Josh Henderson, because he was the gunner in the same humvee.

He shot to the left, stopped, then fired to the right, Bravo said.

Bravo also heard distant incoming fire, he said.

Though Bravo incidicated he didn’t see much after the blast — including a blue SUV that was apparently stopped to his left — he said he did see puffs of smoke on a hill top when the convoy had moved past the blast site and over the bridge.

Bravo said Thursday that he never saw anyone shooting at the convoy. But lawyers pointed out that in a previous statement, he said he saw Sgt. Brooks shooting and that he saw two military-age men shooting at the convoy.

Bravo said he doesn’t remember either of those things, and felt the NCIS agents who questioned him were trying to “put me in a corner.”

After he told the NCIS agents he didn’t see Brooks firing, they kept pressing, so he eventually said Brooks was probably firing. He did not write anything down, and only signed a statement after NCIS agents told him he had to, Bravo said.

But, he said, those parts of the statement that are inaccurate."