Federal Judge Blocks Missouri Public School From Distributing Bibles

Fox News / AP ^ | January 10, 2008

[Stoat]

ST. LOUIS —  A rural school district's long-standing practice of allowing the distribution of Bibles to grade school students is unconstitutional, a federal judge has ruled.

An attorney for the southeastern Missouri school district said Wednesday he will appeal the judge's injunction against the practice.

For more than three decades, the South Iron School District in Annapolis, 120 miles southwest of St. Louis in the heart of the Bible Belt, allowed representatives of Gideons International to give away Bibles in fifth-grade classrooms.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed suit two years ago on behalf of four sets of parents. In August, a three-judge panel of the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a temporary injunction against the practice.

[wintertime]

Believe me there is no watering down just the omission of a man-made tool to aid in personal evangelism. There’s nothing sneaky about standing in front of a classroom and sharing the gospel before distributing the NT’s.

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Don’t be surprised when handsome, young, and very appealing Mormon missionaries want to do the same.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Don’t be surprised then when NAMBLA, and Satanic groups start standing on the sidewalk wanting to hand out literature to the government captive children as they are released from their day prison ( mis-named “school”)"

See #76. Like it or not, "public schools" are NOT going to go away. Your argument is just as unlikely to happen as the things argued by purist libertarians.

[wintertime]

My “wrong” is the only approach that will “right” the situation. It’s called “freedom of speech”, a concept once understood by all Americans, and today understood by virtually none.

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The only approach is to shut down the Liberal/Marxists indoctrination centers ( misnamed public “schools).

Christians could do this if they wanted. Hey! Harvard has a 35 BILLION dollar endowment. Christians could have private foundations giving private vouchers. There is no reason at all that every child in the U.S. couldn’t have a free Christian education.

Also...Christian churches should be starting mini-schools, micro-schools, one room school houses, and homeschooling coops. Forget the brick and mortar model it is based on a failed Prussian concept. The technology exists to provide excellent educations to all Christian children at very low expense.

Finally, it is time for Christian teachers to act forcefully against the god-less and anti-Judeo Christian indoctrination in their government indoctrination centers. In other words, they should be fully prepared to be fired.

If Christian teachers are not brave enough to be the Christians they claim to be, then they should QUIT!

If Christian teachers are doing less than the above they are teaching the students that Christians are weak, luke warm, timid, sneaky and sly, and willing to sell their principles for a paycheck and a pension. Wow! And,,,true missionaries have to counter that?! No wonder they have a tough job!

[Lucky Dog]

I suggest you consult the Fourteenth Amendment.

I have.

Forgive me for being less than specific enough with my suggestion. I should have included a suggested reference to the court cases based upon the Fourteenth Amendment. The rulings on these cases have held that governments at levels are constrained by the same strictures in relation to individual freedoms as those on the Federal Government inclusive of those strictures on Congress except where specific language makes it obvious that such could not apply.

"Freedom of religion" as a principle also implies "freedom from religion" as an individual freedom. While you and I might think that prohibiting the voluntary distribution of bibles by a non-governmental agency on public property is not a violation of the "freedom from religion" principle, courts have obviously disagreed with us.

Given that one of the powers we, as citizens, have ceded through the Constitution to governments at various levels is coercive, dispute resolution in the courts, we must accept their decrees after appeals have upheld them.

[the808bass]

Christians removed the section on the Plan of Salvation so that they could slyly **sneak** past the the government censors.

You read that wrong. There is a section in some Gideon Bibles which ties together various Scriptures and gives a very explicit evangelical definition of salvation and how to pray. This was not included in the School Distribution edition to attempt to avoid the charge of proselytizing.

[the808bass]

Hey, what do you think we should do?

[Hoodat]

I was relying on the actual wording of the Constitution instead of an interpretation of that wording given us by the same body that gave us Plessy v. Ferguson and Roe v. Wade.

I know where your interpretation came from, I just don't agree with that interpretation since there is no Constitutional basis for it.

[Freedom2specul8]

Our current district (which shall remain nameless) allowed the same group to pass out new testaments to our middle schoolers. Mind you, this is after we moved out of the big liberal city. I thought it was awesome......

On that note, I would be annoyed if a “cult” or something similar tried to pass their literature to my children.

Interesting!!

[rhombus]

Keep the dream alive... but public eduction in America is NOT going away. But I totally agree that if Christians want the freedom they claim they want, they’d walk away from Uncle Sam’s candy instead of trying to get a piece for themselves.

[Lucky Dog]

I was relying on the actual wording of the Constitution instead of an interpretation of that wording given us by the same body ...

That body to which you refer is charged under the very document upon which you are relying with the authority and responsibility to interpret that document.

I just don't agree with that interpretation since there is no Constitutional basis for it.

It is certainly your privilege to disagree. That body has on past occasions reversed itself. However, such reversals have seldom occurred after multiple cases challenging a particular legal premise have been held invalid under the same, or very similar, legal reasoning. Such is the case regarding the application of the Fourteenth Amendment. In particular, such is the situation with specific challenges to the freedom of religion principle.

[bereanway]

“But I totally agree that if Christians want the freedom they claim they want, they’d walk away from Uncle Sam’s candy instead of trying to get a piece for themselves.”

Many have (walked away from the public schools), which is the reason homeschooling and private schools have grown so much. Really, what’s more at issue here for Christians is the Great Commission. This evangelization will continue just as it has for centuries whether those kids (of Christian parents) are in or out of public schools.

[rhombus]

Let me guess... you’re a Huckabee supporter aren’t you?

[bereanway]

Guess again dude. Better yet read my tagline or my comments.

[rhombus]

Sorry, I don’t pay much attention to tag lines. Good luck with that guy. I’d like to see him on the ticket but clearly he’s not going to make the top spot.

[rhombus]

But getting back to “the Great Commission”, there’s plenty of places that can be accomplished with the same people and it doesn’t have to be in the public school.

[mountainbunny]

For anyone who is against what this judge did:
Will you be in support of Muslims handing out Korans and discussing their faith with your kids?
Will you be in support of Catholics handing out their version of the Bible?
Seventh Day Adventists?
Scientologists?

If not, why not?

[mountainbunny]

There really is a better way: Get the government out of the education business!

I could not possibly agree more. People don't seem to understand that this (where "this" is religious disagreements, health education disagreements or moral disagreements or really, anything else) is a natural result of publicly funded education. Teaching involves making moral decisions. Let's not pretend that it doesn't.

Morals & learning go together and we will never be able to separate them as long as we accept the idea that the State has the right or obligation to help raise and educate our kids.

[RogerD]

As a public school teacher (no, not the enemy, I am open in expressing the importance of faith in my life and the fact that values are absolutes) and a devout Christian, I wish the Gideons would pass out the Bible at my school to any student who wanted one, and I am capable of reading the actual words of the Constitution as amended so I know there is no violation of the 1st Amendment in such an action.

I also would not mind someone handing out the Koran to those who want one, or any other classical work. A lot of kids who are reluctant readers would try to struggle through Mao, or the Koran, just because they are different, and that would help with the three Rs. Far more would take a Bible and eventually read it than would take any of what I consider the lesser works. I consider that a big win for America.

As for the pervert lobby (NAMBLA, Hillary's "It Takes a Village to Brainwash a Child", etc), I see no inconsistency in banning their filth while permitting classical religious works and other writings of historical importance. As for the question of the 1st Amendment, permitting the distribution of religious literature in school in no way constitutes a state establishment of religion in the sense of the Church of England or the Lutheran Church in Germany. It is a good thing on those rare occasions when the schools stand up for the actual meaning of the First Amendment and explain to our students why the ACLU's anti-freedom message is a dishonest interpretation of our basic rights.

[rhombus]

Actually when I was in school we had a section in social studies that discussed religions and we read many excerpts from many different texts. However, that being said, after hearing lots and lots of people on this very site remind me again and again and again that Mormans are a cult and aren’t really Christian, I know that some people are so blinded by their own “rightness” that it wouldn’t stop with just passing out Bibles or Korans to interested students. Further your definition of “filth” would surely be disputed in court which means lot of money coming from school budgets going to lawyers instead of teachers. It’s such an easy thing to just let Bibles be passed out outside of school grounds. I think the consequences of NOT doing this could and most assuredly would be far worse. You have to ask where does it end and it’s not too hard to see where this will end up in a country where anybody can and will sue anybody over anything.

[John Leland 1789]

“Well, in this day and age I have to side with the judge. If they allowed Bibles, next they’d have to allow Qurans to be distributed to the children.”

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What is likely to happen? Bibles will be banned and Qurans will be allowed. I predict that, somehow, the ruling against Bibles will not apply to other “religious literature.” Qurans will be introduced as sensitivity, get-along-with-the-Muslims training.