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To: DelphiUser; Tennessee Nana; MHGinTN
The word “Mormon” is not in the Bible

Neither is the word Trinity, So?

While the word Trinity may not appear in the Bible, it is clearly revealed by our Lord:
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30, KJV)

The fact that many in the crowd wanted to stone the Lord for this statement indicates that He very clearly meant what he said.

And He clarifies it again here:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19, KJV)

Notice here that it DOES NOT say names, it says name, this indicates that They are One.

Right, like the Nicene Creed which was created by a pagan emperor to make "Christianity" more palatable to pagans, right.

Another myth, the Nicene Creed was approved in 381 A.D., by this time Christianity was already the dominant religion in the Roman Empire and the Empire itself was in chaos anyway. In other words, the Church was far more dominant than the weakened Empire. However, aside from its clear illustration of the Trinity, what exactly do you disagree with in the Nicene Creed.

200 posted on 01/10/2008 11:04:39 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30, KJV) Yes, but there are so many meanings for the word one, if this were all we had to go on it would be difficult to know which one he meant, fortunately, he did not leave us with that one scripture, but in John 17:22 he said "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"

Jesus himself made an analogy of his oneness with the Father and the oneness the disciples were to have. I could make, much fun of the disciples joining together into some Giant super apostle, however that is not what happened, they became of the same heart might mind and strength, this is what Jesus means by I and my father are one, one in heart, one in might, one in mind, one in strength. Truly, Jesus and his father are one, the questions is, did we understand this translated and retranslated scripture correctly.

I have in the past had a discussion with others about the translations the Bible has gone through and I hold out that a translation involves some measure of interpretation, as proof, I have challenged anyone to take a web page, like today's MSN page for example and run it through Google's Translation page translate it into say Chinese, then back to English, hand it to someone who has not seen the original MSN page, to read, laughter to follow. The fact that the Bible makes any sense what so ever is nothing short of a modern miracle to me.

The fact that many in the crowd wanted to stone the Lord for this statement indicates that He very clearly meant what he said.

Either interpretation would have gotten him stoned.

And He clarifies it again here:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19, KJV)


Yes, he lists three personages, not me myself and I.

The difference in what you read and what I read is not in the words, it is in what we have been taught about reality, it is in our indoctrination. Indoctrination is not necessarily a bad thing, Parents indoctrinate their children (at least they are supposed to) all Churches indoctrinate members, schools indoctrinate students TV shows, movies, news broadcasts, etc. Not all of it is good, not all of it is bad, differing levels of Good and bag for episodes, classes, etc. the trick is to be aware of what you have accepted without questioning, and not reject it, but just know that it is supposition at this point, then you can go forward and when challenged, know what you know, and know what you assume.

the things that are worthwhile in life are often the hardest things to do. Most in this world who have been indoctrinated in a religion are unaware of their indoctrination. One of the things that sets people apart who join the Mormon church is the awareness they tend to have of both the indoctrination the had, and the indoctrination they are accepting as Mormons. Once you can see the things you have taken for granted in your religion for the indoctrination that it is you will be in a position to embrace your religion more fully, or choose to go to some thing better.

Notice here that it DOES NOT say names, it says name, this indicates that They are One.

I am going to the Store for Bob and George and Mike, want anything?

Your exercise in semantics breaks down in the real world.

Another myth, the Nicene Creed was approved in 381 A.D., by this time Christianity was already the dominant religion in the Roman Empire and the Empire itself was in chaos anyway. In other words, the Church was far more dominant than the weakened Empire. However, aside from its clear illustration of the Trinity, what exactly do you disagree with in the Nicene Creed.

You see, this is exactly what i am talking about, how do you know this? It has been taught to you by those you accepted to be in "Authority". Unfortunately for you, the actual records kept by Constantine's record keeper are published on the Web by the Catholic church in their encyclopedia, Here. Let me give you some Quotes from that link:

  1. Title "The First Council of Nicaea"
  2. The year 325 is accepted without hesitation as that of the First Council of Nicaea (so you even had the date wrong.)
  3. The Emperor (still a pagan) was only interested in solidifying the Roman Empire recently reunited. "Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius deprecating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay.
  4. The Dispute was between Arianism (A belief that God and Christ are separate entities who make up the Godhead) and Trinitarianism (A belief that God and Christ are of the Same substance.)
  5. This attempt at quick reconciliation failed and a council was called.
  6. "The emperor himself, in very respectful letters, begged the bishops of every country to come promptly to Nicaea."
  7. The Council was run By Constantine (who is still a pagan sun worshiper)
  8. "The emperor began by making the bishops understand that they had a greater and better business in hand than personal quarrels and interminable recriminations. Nevertheless, he had to submit to the infliction of hearing the last words of debates which had been going on previous to his arrival."
  9. The Council finally mostly agreed upon the following
    We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made our of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.
  10. Of the same substance is the problem, for if God is of the same substance as Jesus then God could not have a physical reality, the greeks who were the majority believe that nothing physical could be perfect (that was their indoctrination, from Greek Hellinistic paganisem from which they or their fore fathers had been converted.)
  11. There were five bishops who refused to accept this bastardisation of what they believed, other accounts speak of the first two being put to the sword, the third changing his mind this record says "The adhesion was general and enthusiastic. All the bishops save five declared themselves ready to subscribe to this formula, convince that it contained the ancient faith of the Apostolic Church. The opponents were soon reduced to two" The "Two" were too famous to just kill, so they were exiled.
This is the Council of Nicea as recorded at the link I gave Above and I will repeat it Here

NewAdvent. org is registered to the Catholic Church in America, this is an English translation of a document originally written in Latin, this is their record, not mine, Go read learn. Then you will understand the only point I am trying to make with this is we have the support of history to claim what we claim to be a restoration, we have much more to back up our position with, if you really want to know, ask, however, I really don't want to do this in open forum, as there will undoubtedly be many posting in response to me "Attacking" their faith. I am not attacking anyone's faith I am supporting my own with Documents people on this thread are saying don't exist.

The important thing is that Jesus is the Christ and that we all have faith on him.

God be with you in your studies.
211 posted on 01/10/2008 1:07:34 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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